Duffy Daugherty Forum

There is the possiblity that since Kerrick is already enrolled, he can be counted against 2011. The thought was we would take 18 or 19 players for 2012. If Kerrick is counted against 2011, then that would put us at 15 commits, meaing we could have 3 or 4 scholarships left. There also is the real possibility that there might be some movement on the current roster through attrition. This could leave us still with the possibility of taking Holtz, Madaris, Dodson/Johnson, Cox.

Any idea who the attrition might be???

Paul Lang may retire due to back injuries. I also wouldn't be surprised if a LB transfers. We have quite a logjam there.

Gainer has already moved to DE I think, and it looks like Lyles is projecting to DE as well.

So yeah maybe there isn't a logjam at LB, but there very well may be one at DE. Funny how we call it a logjam, but most people would call it "depth".

The last couple of years there was quite a bit of talk regarding the MSU defense experimenting with a 3-4 look as opposed to the base 4-3 they have primarily employed since Dantonio got here. We saw the 3-4 in a couple of situations but there has been no wholesale change in defense. Now, we haven't heard much regarding a change of defense, this is just my speculation, but, we just saw our top DT jump early to the NFL. We have a JUCO senior and a journeyman OL/DL and a transfer penciled in as our top three DT's next year backed up by a few RS freshmen. Then we have a linebacking corp featuring Norman, Bullough, Allen as the starters with a LT that HAS to see the field a good bit starting next fall plus a Taiwan Jones the staff has raved about on special teams. Add in a Darrien Harris, Steve Gardner and Jeremy Gainer (may have already moved to DE) and you've got at least seven SOLID LB's + a fairly thin and inexperienced (in the two deeps) at DT and I see a potential recipe for as good a time as any to at least consider a little more switching between a 4-3 and 3-4 defense this fall. Anyone have any thoughts?

No, we don't.

White is the only true NT we have and he's there for one year. Ramondo may develop but he's still a year or two from contributing. There's not much depth either.

Also, people like Rush would end up being an OLB in the 3-4 system. Also, the coaching is totally different because the scheme is new and the assignments/responsibilites are a far cry from this. Narduzzi coached the #5 D in the country with a 4-3 and it returns 18/22 people. Why switch?

My general thought is that you need a deep DL to run the 3-4. The amount of punishment the 3-4 DL absorbs means you need 2-3 guys at each spot who can come in and give you a lot of snaps if you're going to be effective.

If your linemen wear down, those extra LBs don't do you any good; the OGs are usually uncovered in against a 3-4, meaning they're going to have free release off the line on running plays. If the NT/DEs can't occupy the interior, those LBs are going to have some very big men in between them and the ball carrier.

In short, running a 3-4 is much more about your DL talent rather than your LB talent.

Now, the other issue to consider is that the 3-4 completely changes the reads/gap assignments of your front 7. You're basically asking your front 7 to start from scratch from a mental standpoint. That limits the ability of those guys, especially the LBs, to "play fast"; that is, play without hesitation. It doesn't matter if the LB is a 4.5 flat guy; if he takes a wrong angle that 4.6 RB is going to rumble away from him all the way to the endzone.

Look at Alabama and Georgia in their first year with the 3-4 ('07 and '11 respectively). Both had struggles (Bama lost to La Lafayette; UGA to Central Florida), before rebounding strongly the next year (12-2 season for Bama, 10-4 for UGA). In short, the 3-4 is rarely a good "1-year switch"; you have to dedicate the team and your recruiting for the scheme. In that respect, I don't see the Spartans recruiting in that manner.

The only squad I can recall that made a successful 3-4 switch for 1 year was Michigan's 2006 team, and that only worked because Alan Branch put it all together at NT for a single season. I just don't see it as a viable move for MSU in the near future; the 4-3 just gave the Spartans it's best D in the past 20 years (yea, I'd say even better than 1999) and the coaches have recruited for that scheme.

Edit: Also, the LB recruiting reads like a 4-3 succession plan rather than a 3-4 shift. If you look at the chart, MSU is set to lose 5 LBs (4 scholarship guys) after 2013: Bullough, Hammock, Allen, Gainer + Elsworth. So though MSU took 4 LBs in the 2011 class, it's with the idea that those guys will be RS JRs set to take over for the departed LBs in 2014.

The first post is from 11 days ago and has not had an edit so Madaris and Cox have not been added yet.

I would add Kings Jr. to the list. Coach D said he would see the field. He has great hands and his change of direction is very quick. The comparison would be to Keyshawn Martin. ESPN (i know they suck) said Kings lacked speed.....i don't know the film they were watching but the kid looks blazing fast to me.

i believe it. This is the first year I actually looked at MSU recruiting, so i was not aware of how horrible ESPN is. I'm sitting down by the computer watching his highlights on youtube thinking I'm no expert but this kid looks blazing fast. They have him running a 4.71 40. SMH. Do they even watch the games these kids play in?

Kittredge is now officially on scholarship I believe.

And good lord we have a lot of LBs.

thanks for the efforts Martin .... interesting way to view the team. First impressions. We are THIN at OT and DT. 2013 will have to be loaded with talent ... some of which may need to play immediately. JUCO or two even?