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Kieler already has a broken leg (Klatt broke his foot 16 months ago and we have barely heard a peep about him since due to it setting him back) . How is that not going to set back his development? The tackles MSU has signed or committed are very raw after whiffing on the other prospects (Finley and Kieler). MSU is losing 2 tackles (starters both at the beginning of this season) after next season without any reliable tackle being able to.step in besides maybe Burkland. I hope Conklin is great and sounds like he was a beast on the scout team but most of the scout team, practice updates, spring and fall camp information has been little more than propaganda in the last 1-2 years.
This post was edited by selande2 16 months ago
Look I see and agree with a portion of what your saying. Dead on. However, as to the propaganda, we also heard quite a bit about guys like; Shillique Calhoun, RJ Williamson, Taiwan Jones, etc. and they've all been spot on assessments.
Uhhh Burkland is a starter at OT who won't be gone after next year . .
Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.
The issue is talent, Rock. And primarily at the Tackle position. We put a lot of eggs in Kieler and Conklin's baskets.
True, the OL & Roushar were easy targets after the 6-6, but QB play was also suspect. We've got a couple of potential studs in O'Connor & Terry in the pipeline to look forward to at QB going forward. As we also have lots of talent at DB, LB & WR to look forward to.
Gotta say, its tough to look at the OL pipeline, esp at OT, & have anywhere near the same optimism for the future. As has been noted, we do have the #'s currently, but very few highly rated kids. We will need guys like Kieler & Conklin to contribute in a few years.
Of course it's based off of second hand information. Let's face it, there is no one on this board that has anything other than speculatory information. No one has ties to the staff, that's the point of this board. As long as we all realize that what everyone is posting here is a combination of opinion and what people read from various messages boards we'll be ok.
As the 2013 recruiting season was just heating up about a year ago there were 4 prominent names that were frequently mentioned as the key targets for OL recruiting. It looked like there was going to be a big breakthrough in OL recruiting with an infusion of talent not seen around EL in a long time. Leading the way was Riley Norman which was pretty much a foregone conclusion at the time that he would be in the class. Then following closely were Elmer, Kugler and Bosch. There were expectations that at least 2 or 3 of these 4 would be in the class. Elmer, an instate kid had MSU ties in addition to his ND ties. Kugler was probably the most certain after Norman and Bosch had strong interest in MSU. Throw in the Bennenoch saga and you have 5 4 Star OLmen that ended up taking a diferent path. Finley was a nice surprize falling into our lap and there is great potential with him. 2014 will need to see OL recruiting as the top priority. You can never have enough OLmen. Knee and back injuries are common and most take a couple years of development and strength building. On year to year average you probably should have 4 in each class and hopefully not have to fill depth chart spots with walkons. There is probably about a 1/3 washout rate with OLmen due to injury/transfer/recruiting misses etc....
That's fair; we'll see if Michael Dennis ever develops into anything, but you're right, there were 2 OTs in '10, 0 in '11, 2 in '12, 1 in '13.
I'm most concerned about the injury situation; 2 straight years of multiple season-ending injuries on the OL really sucks the life away. Would the O be quite as bad if Treadwell never gets a stress fracture and Jackson/Fonoti are getting ready to start their 20-something-eth straight game? Probably not; you may have even seen Fonoti at LT and Burkland at RT.
You're right though; if both Kieler and Conklin are busts, the OT position is screwed; Finely's the only one after '14 other than those two. Can't rely on true FR in the '14 class.
Clearly the expectations for Kugler were based on misinformation or wishful thinking. If he really had any interest in MSU he does not commit on the spot to um and cancel the trip to East Lansing. I do not know if you can count this as a whiff. It is not like the coaches can tie the kid down and make him listen if he does not want to or does not care..
Exactly. Norman? Miss. Elmer? Miss. Kugler? Miss. Pocic? Miss. Dawson? Miss.
I hope Keiler and Conklin work out, but saying that we're fine is very naive.
Two of the four mentioned had their sights set on um & ND. A third didn't even want to play football. Peeps here start counting chickens before the eggs are even laid, then piss themselves when their baseless expectations aren't met.
That said, MD has misjudged the talent on his O staff. Besides fielding an O that played far below it's potential, the O staff can't recruit linemen. Choosing an OC with the charisma of soapy dishwater, well we see the result.
My understanding was exactly as i stated that at the beginning of the season Fou and France were the starting tackles at the beginning of the season and Burkland replaced Fou due to injury.. Correct me if I was wrong.
And we have to endure another season of the offensive staff more importantly.
Hopefully the staff keeps their eyes on a top JUCO OT just incase the OT's have issues
That is partially correct. I believe Burkland may have been ahead of Fonoti until he got injured himself. I think we have 1 tackle who is moderately talented that hasn't had many injury issues (France), and two tackles who have more talent and higher potential who both have had some significant injury issues over the past couple years (Fonoti and Burkland).
laconophilia is everywhere...
The talk was that MSU would have a 3 OT rotation with Burkland, France and Fonoti after the CMU game (Burkland rotated in). Then Fonoti got hurt prior to ND and the whole thing was rendered moot. Burkland's going to have a full season of starting under his belt (3 starting '11, 9 starts in '12 + 1 in the bowl game = 13 career starts), so I consider him a starter going forward.
"losing Caleb Benenoch is a blow that Dantonio will never recover from. Izzo has lost it as well. Hoke and Beilein own the state."
How is Norman a miss?
Kugler is the only miss on that list. Norman chose not to play football for gods sake. It's shitty luck but hardly a miss. Dawson, Pocic, etc were never had a chance scenarios in retrospect.
Correct, I don't know people like Lew have to act like MSU missed on all of these OL prospects just to bag on the job the recruiting staff did on said recruits.
Finley is a stud. OSU offered him. UofM offered him. He's a huge get even though schools identified him as elite later in the process.
This is not mentioned remotely enough. It may only be 1 recruit, but it's a very big one.
Hope you're right.
Actually, my original post was in response to someone rationalizing our 2013 O-Line recruiting.
We got waxed with O-Line recruiting, plain and simple. This takes nothing away from Finley (clearly a stud), but we did not close the deal on a number of guys that we wanted. Worse yet, many of them committed to teams that we have to play.
Just a note, Michigan had a huge advantage in offensive line recruiting. It looks like we may only have one returning starter on our entire offensive line next year. We will probably have a bare minimum of two freshman starting on the offensive line with the potential to have five or six in the two-deep. It's a pretty easy sell when there is tons of available playing time. It's pretty hard to compete with when you consider that Michigan also has a pretty well known offensive line tradition.
I don't think the sky is falling like many of you think it is. It will get a lot harder for Michigan to beat you for recruits when we don't have a catastrophic level of depth.
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