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Agreed to your agree . MSU could have had Dillard and Jorgenson (sp) in this class (and Norman, had he decided to play football), but the former 2 are not guys MSU thought had the potential to be impact players.
Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.
Is this a good time to respectfully re-submit the request to CBD for his in-depth review of our OL situation? Walk some of us back from the ledge....
Not CBD, but I did this a few days ago . . . .
By my count:
RS SR: France (OT), Fonoti (OT), Klatt (OG/C), Treadwell (OG/C)
RS JR: Burkland (OT), Jackson (C/OG), Dennis (OT)
RS Soph: Allen (C/OG), Clark (OG)
RS FR: McGowan (OG), Higgins (OG), Kieler (OT), Conklin (OT)
true FR: Finely (OT)
Total: 14, not including Kruse and Lints, a pair of walk-ons who are in the 3-deep, or Conway who didn't play much this past year, if at all.
Key here is to take 4 in '14 to replace the 4 outgoing RS SRs in terms of overall #s. Most Big 10 teams carry between 12 and 18 OL; MSU is right in the middle in terms of overall #s.
By my count that's 7 OTs and 7 interior OL. Probably want to take 2 OGs, a C and 1 OT at a minimum in '14.
This post was edited by MalibuMan 14 months ago
Thanks Rocky. I saw that post before and its excellent info. I was going more for a "qualitative" assessment; e.g., we've seen injuries to guys like Knox and Higgins -- what kind of future do they have? Are Conklin and McGowan as good as the reports say they are? What's the deal with Kieler? We heard he became a real weight room monster. Might Jones or Price fill out to OT level? Etc.
These are good questions. I think we'll know more after winter conditioning. I am very worried about our OL recruiting. Rocky does a good job of walking people off the ledge, but the panic is still real. I think Rocky is a little optimistic on our line.
Regardless, 2014 has to be a huge year for us recruiting the lines. 4 or 5 guys. We need quality guys....2013 was a year when the midwest was packed with talent and we only got one guy. We need a massive haul in 2014.
Looks like Trout is OSU bound. That takes our #1 OT prospect off the board. Hope there are more in the pipeline.
The #s are there. The ability is there too, I think, at least among the top 7 or 8. The key is that MSU is going to lose 3 viable OL after '13 (France, Fonoti, Treadwell) and it'll be up to the '12 guys to replace them in '14 (if that makes any sense).
I'm not going to meltdown over Trout if he chooses tOSU; Nick Richardson is probably the next guy on the list FWIW.
Here's a look ahead at MSU's 2013 OL :
OC/OG Travis Jackson - Prior to his injury, he was MSU's most athletic OL. There has been some talk of him moving to OG but it is most likely that he will remain @ OC. The staff likes his leadership ability on the OL.
OC/OG Jack Allen - His natural position is OC. He will get reps @ OC and OG during Spring and Fall practices.
OC Kyle Lints - Walk-on who is learning to play OC since he played OT in HS. He was injured last season on the Scout Team which has slowed his learning curve @ OC.
OG/OC Blake Treadwell - Looks to be the starter @ left OG in 2013. Can also backup all 3 interior OL positions.
OG Donavon Clark - Started 2 games @ left OT in 2012 due to Dan France being injured. His natural position is OG. He will be in the competition for the starting right OG position in 2013.
OG/OC Nate Klatt - Foot injuries have really slowed his devekopment. He needs to be healthy to make a push to be in the 2-Deeps in 2013.
OG/OC Connor Kruse - He was awarded a scholarship last Fall. He needs to show he deserved that scholarship and make a push into the 2-Deeps in 2013.
OG Benny McGowan - He arrived on campus as a true Fr. carrying too much weight (315 lbs.). He does have a massive frame, so winter conditioning will be very important for him. The S & C staff would like him to be about 300 lbs. going into Spring practice. He has the potential to be a real road grader in the Roland Martin mold. May be able to get into the 2-Deeps if he works really hard at it. He is a mauler.
OG Zach Higgins - Another massive young man. He can destroy a stationary target but quick and athletic DT's give him problems and he is not adept at pulling on sweeps. Not likely to be in the 2-Deeps in 2013.
OT/OG Fou Fonoti - There has been some talk of him moving to OG in 2013. OG would be his projected position in the NFL. He will be a starter somewhere on the OL in 2013. Will be interesting to see where he lines up this Spring.
OT Skyler Burkland - He is the most physically gifted of the O-Linemen. Elite size, long arms and pretty good footwork. With his size, it's a $10 cab ride to get around him. Injuries have slowed his development. He should be starting at one of the OT spots in 2013.
OT Dan France - Has been the starting left OT. Speed rushers do give him problems. Last season he got some reps @ left OG during Fall practice. There could be some experimentation during Spring practice.
OT Michael Dennis - Former HS TE who was used some as a blocking TE toward the end of the season and did a pretty good job. As an OT, he looks the part and passes the eyeball test and at 6'-7", he has a wingspan like a 747. 2013 is really important for him to push for PT.
OT Jack Conklin - Was better than expected on the Scout Team and surprised some people with his footwork and pass blocking ability. Having said that, the expectations for him coming in were not that high since he was considered a fairly raw prospect.
OT Cody Kieler - Suffered a broken leg on the Scout Team early last season. This really hindered his development. He's a big kid who has some athleticism and was coming along on the Scout Team
OT Henry Conway - His career threatening neck injury has really hurt his development in what began as a promising college career. There is some concern that the effects of the neck injury may keep him from ever competing at the B1G level. Stay tuned.
OT Shawn Kamm - Walk-on whose claim to fame was winning the wing eating contest at the BWW Bowl with 50 some. Looks like a career Scout Team player.
OT Dennis Finley - Prized recruit in the 2013 class. He was the top performing OL prospect at the SMSB camp last summer. He will be red-shirted to gain strength and learn the nuances of playing OT at the college level.
IMHO, the most athletic OL MSU could field in 2013 would be :
OC Travis Jackson
Left OT Fou Fonoti
Left OG Dan France
Right OG Micajah Reynolds
Right OT Skyler Burkland
Again, just a thought.
This post was edited by CoachedByDuffy 14 months ago
not trying to push anyone out the door, but I know we are bringing in more kids than leaving...when do the # have to work out, start of fall camp? Are Conway/Klatt candidates to possibly move on like Deyo did, to try to get a chance to start somewhere right away with the grad transfer rule?
Go Bears, Blackhawks, White Sox, and Pioneers.
Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand
I just don't see Reynolds being moved back to OG AGAIN. With people like Clark and Allen who have a shot I can't see them making the DT position weaker just to have Reynolds there. If Reynolds was THAT good he'd be playing OG instead of being flopped around.
How good would France's 6'6 frame be at OG?
People are gonna call you out for forgetting Keiler. Your breakdown of the line worries me exactly in the way that I thought it would. We are so thin at OT....It was known this year that we were thin there and it went unaddressed. It's a huge problem
Bad memory, whatever happened to Skyler Schofner? I think he was a 4* in 2010
Skyler Schofner changed his last name to Burkland. He's a starter.
Keiler and Conklin are both OTs.
How would you address the OT position? You've got 3 guys with starting experience in France, Fonoti and Burkland. You have Dennis and Conway as back-ups. They brought in 2 FR OT in '12 who RS. Short of getting a JUCO OT, what the heck were they supposed to do?
Also, having 3 OTs with starting experience is a luxury very few teams have. Among Big 10 title contenders this fall, Wisky, UM, tOSU and Nebraska do not have that depth.
I had Kieler and Conklin on my list but just forgot to put them in.
Edited my original post to add them.
It's Hell to get old, LOL.
This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by CoachedByDuffy 14 months ago
I think we have to.
Thanks CBD. On your most athletic OL list, Reynolds I thought was permanently on DL. Also, no Jack Allen was surprising given he was a freshman AA.
Never thought of Fou going to guard. Funny to think a freshman AA may not start next year.
I'm pretty sure Jackson was a FR AA too . . .
Good point. I think we will see a couple if not a few OL combos in the first couple games. Having depth at OL is never a bad thing as we learned the hard way this year.
I know your position on this Rocky, and we don't agree. We have Fonoti, who's natural position is OG. We have France, who isn't very good. And we have Burkland, who probably is the best pure OT of the bunch. After that you're talking about a bunch of under the radar guys, and guys coming off of potentially career ending injuries (welcome to the offensive line). We can try to patch something together again this year, but sooner or later we're going to need to quit hearing about guys who have potential, and start seeing guys realize their potential. Dennis, Conway. Conklin, Keiler.....These are basically the same guy at this point. Names on a depth chart. If none of them can beat out France, then I don't know how good they are at this point
Guess my point is that the guys who are going to.help in '13 &'14 are the '10-'12 guys. Not much you can do at this point.
I don't think France is horrific and Fonoti was pretty good in '11 at OT. If any of.the '12 guys push them this year, I'd be surprised ans very optimistic a nj out the future. More likely that we don't see the '12 guys until '14 & Finley in '15.
Nobody is denying that. But that is why you take more than one lineman in a class. Because in 15, you don't want it to be a collection of walk ons, some dude with a snapped neck, and another with a broken leg, and you're talking about them as your offensive line depth. And yes, injuries happen, but we're throwing these guys around as reasonable depth, when they can't even beat out Dan "Happy Feet" France, who gets blown by and gets a false start at least once a game.
France is a guy who would be awesome for depth. Fonoti is a fine run blocking OT. Ideally he would be an OG though. Burkland is the guy who I hope emerges at LT.
I don't agree with WavSpartan's assessment of who's bad and what position they are playing.
The OL isn't bad in pass pro. They don't have the muscle for good run blocking unfortunately though. Another year of seasoning and strength for each player could show a noticeable difference there though.
I think this is the sneaky part of the injuries; almost all of them aside from Burkland's finger have been lower-body injuries. That sets them back in terms of lower body S&C, which is very important in the trenches.
I fear what the offense will be without Bell and Sims. The OL will be significantly improved with health, more depth, and so many experienced players returning but not enough to compensate for the loss of those two. MSU needs a new QB to step up and some offensive skill player talents to imerge. Otherwise it will be another long year with a pass rush that probably won't be as strong as last year.
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