In partnership with CBSSports.com
Online Now 1611
Online now 1442 Record: 10351 (3/11/2012)
The largest and most active MSU Spartans board on the web
The place to ask questions to SpartanTailgate's recruiting experts
"The Duff" is dedicated to Michigan State football recruiting discussion
"The Bres" is dedicated to Michigan State basketball recruiting discussion
This is your pulpit to preach to the masses about everything from politics to religion
The place to buy, trade or sell Michigan State tickets
For fantasy football and other fantasy sports discussion
You have no favorite boards.
The most viewed topics.
The most replied to topics.
The most up-voted topics.
The most down-voted topics.
The most up-voted posters.
The most down-voted posters.
The most followed posters.
Which is why you need to have serviceable depth. Offensive line injuries are a normal part of having a football program. We are not unique
MSU has had more injuries (some football career ending) than most teams there unfortunately.
Not to this extent.
Having 8 OL IS serviceable depth. You seem to want a full 2-deep of guys ready to step in at a moment's notice and that's completely unrealistic.
Recruiting more OL isn't going to magically make you have 10 starter-quality OL ready to go at the drop of a hat. There isn't a single team in the country that could field its second team OL for a full season and not suffer a big drop-off in production. Not Bama, not Oregon, not Wisconsin, Iowa, etc. Other than RG, the 2nd team OL started at least 2 games over the course of last year, and a freaking 3rd string LT started the UM game. Nobody recruits or plans for that scenario; it's like in 2001 when MSU lost 4 CBs in the first 4 games of the regular season. You expect the 3rd string CBs to perform at a starter's level when you're thrown into the role?
You need to realize that injuries, not recruiting, played the biggest role in MSU's OL struggles last year. They exceeded even the upper limit of allowable injuries in a given year.
As for '13 and '14, the OL "help" is going to come from guys already in the program. Taking 5 OL in '14 will not help MSU on the OL in '14 or '15. If you have a problem with the '13 OL depth, complain about the '10 and '11 OL classes; taking guys in '13 wasn't going to help MSU in '13.
I'd advise you look around the Big 10 at their OL rosters and compare them to MSU's in term of scholarship OL.
Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.
Everyone has this somewhere though, whatever position thy have it at
Allen was second on the team in "knockdowns" with 59, however he led the team in "dominators" with 14. My buddy in the program says that a dominator is not a good thing. It's when YOU (as in Allen) "get your shit wrecked." Allen has the talent, but obviously as a freshman he has much work to do.
Coaches who can outline plays on a black board are a dime a dozen. The ones who win get inside their player and motivate.
It's amazing that no other program had any offensive line injuries. Woe is MSU.
Your position on all of this is very clear. You think UM took 4 on the OL last year, and 6 this year because they only want 8 serviceable linemen going forwards in 2015 and beyond and the other two are just going to be team managers.....And of course, they won't take any linemen in the 2014 class because they've already stocked up sufficiently for your needs. Very clear.
And we are the only program in the whole country who is cursed enough to have players have back problems, snap necks, and get cancer.
Name one other team that made a bowl this past year that had 4 OL starters miss at least one game due to injury. Heck, name one that even had 3. What teams in the B1G even had 2 OL starters get hurt? I'd expect maybe 1 or 2 starters to miss some time at most, and then a few backups (with it more likely to happen to younger guys since they aren't used to the physicality of the college level), but MSU had injuries to all but maybe 4 of the OL on scholarship last year at some point.
And UM brought in 10 OL in the last 2 classes since they only have about 3 OL in the '10 and '11 classes. I don't expect all 10 of those guys to stay in the program either.
So what your saying is we are switching to a 3-4
Michigan received a 2014 QB commitment, might take them out of it for O'Connor and Henderson (not clear whether they're taking 2 QBs).
Why don't you drop the shitty, snarky attitude and actually look it up? Name another program that had as many starting OL go out for the year as we did. Jackson and Fonoti both went down for the entire year - that's 2/5 OL gone by the start of B1G play. Treadwell was out for much of the beginning of the year - his second straight year dealing with injuries- so there's 3. Are you really looking at 3 of 5 going down this year and thinking, "Actually, the problem is that we don't have elite 2nd and 3rd stringers, not injuries!"
At what point when people get cancer, get their necks snapped, have chronic back issues and break legs do we decide we might need more depth on the offensive line. This isn't a new occurrence. Maybe we want to start taking more than one offensive lineman in a class.
They are taking two, but I don't think O'Connor or Henderson will want to be in a class with another recruit, JMO. They are both good enough to be "the guy"
Pfft, this is the first time Dantonio has only taken 1 OL, IIRC. I understand the frustration, but just blindly taking a bunch of linemen isn't going to help anything.
It doesn't strike you as interesting that the OL always gets better as the year goes on? Remember, the DL's they're facing have the same opportunity to improve as well.
laconophilia is everywhere...
First off, I agree that we shouldn't blindly take offensive linemen. If the staff doesn't want guys like Dillard and Poet Thomas, they shouldn't take them just to meet numbers. I am saying that we're thin there, and this class is thin there in a year when the midwest was loaded with good offensive linemen. We're going to come to regret that and a few years down the line, you're going to see the injury excuse come out again.
To your second point, no the line doesn't always get better as the year goes on. Case in point, "The Nasty Boys"
For what it's worth, pretty much everyone is reporting we're only taking one quarterback. Speight was our first quarterback offer and he committed on the spot. I don't think we'll be in the running for anymore quarterbacks this year.
Since Sugar Shane is starting as a true freshman, he'll still have two years of eligibility after him
Nah, he's not a 5 star anymore so people are okay with him red-shirting.
Not sure if that is laced with sarcasm, but Gardner was granted another year of eligibility. No way Jesus Morris starts over him.
"Stats are for Losers." - Pat "Nardawg" Narduzzi
So, I'm curious, what are your positions of need for 2014? Also, who do you want the most out of 2014?
Offensive Line. Brian Allen, Jamarco Jones. Kyle Trout. KC McDermott
Does anyone know what happened to that google docs spreadsheet that was in the old thread with all the offers out, etc? If not, i can make a new one and share it on the thread, but I know someone worked hard on the old one
This post was edited by Braintrust 14 months ago
I'd like Henderson. Fast feet and a good arm.
I made a rough one, anyone on this board is free to edit it to add info or make it better (no google account needed). I'll put it in the OP as well.
I've asked you multiple times to find another team that went through the OL attrition MSU saw in '12. Since you refuse to do the leg work, here's a breakdown that should help you for the 2012 season:
Indiana: 6 OL saw starts in '12; only change was at LG halfway through the season. Total OL on the roster: 17. Total # of Scholarship OL: 10 (per Rivals as compared with the '12 Roster).
Illinois: 7 OL saw starts in '12. Total OL on the roster: 18. Total # of Scholarship OL: 16. IL's O was worse than MSU's in '12 and they finished 2-10
Iowa: 8 OL saw starts in '12. Total OL on the roster: 16 . Total # of Scholarship OL: 13 Iowa's O was worse than MSU's in '12 and they finished 4-8.
Michigan: 5 OL saw starts in '12. Total OL on the roster: 17. Total # of Scholarship OL: 11, but 1 (Chris Rock) left the team prior to '12 leaving 10 during the 2012 season (4 true FR). Roster hasn't been updated.
MSU: 9 OL saw starts in '12. Total OL on the roster: 18. Total # of Scholarship OL: 15, not counting Kruse who apparently was awarded a schollie last year (just talking "recruited" scholarship OL)
Minnesota: 7 OL saw starts in '12. Total OL on the roster: 17 (Oddly enough, Minny recruited 0 OL in the '08 class). Total # of Scholarship OL: 13
Nebraska: 6 OL saw starts in '12. Total OL on the roster: 29 (Say hello to the fabled walk-on program). Total # of Scholarship OL: 9-14 (Nebraska had 9 guys that I could count, but they turned over their roster to reflect early enrollees, so I'm not sure if any RS SR OL were on the roster (All graduating 2012 players are not on the roster). I know 2 walk-ons got scholarships and also started (Long and Choi), but I didn't count Kruse for MSU so not sure I should do so. There were 4 schollie OL in the 2008 class, Steinkuhler played DT and there were 3 others. None started as far as I could tell in 2012, so they may not have been in NEB's program at the time. If all 3 made it + you count the 2 walk-ons, it's 14, if you don't, it's 9)
Northwestern: 6 OL saw starts in '12. Total OL on the roster: 15 Total Scholarship OL: 11 or 12 (much like Nebraska, Northwestern turned their roster over on their site already, 3 RS SR did start though so I'm not sure about the 4th member of that class).
Ohio State: 5 OL saw starts in '12. Total OL on the roster: 18. Total Scholarship OL: 11
Penn State: 6 OL saw starts in '12. Total OL on the roster: 17. Total Scholarship OL: 15
Purdue: 7 OL saw starts in '12. Total OL on the roster: 16. Total Scholarship OL: 12
Wisconsin: 7 OL saw starts in '12. Total OL on the roster: 15. Total Scholarship OL: 13
Teams that started the same 5 OL for the whole season: 2, Michigan and tOSU.
Teams that started 6 OL over the course of the season: 4, PSU, Northwestern, Nebraska and IU
Teams that started 7 OL over the course of the season: 4, Wisky, Purdue, Minnesota and IL
Teams that started 8 OL over the course of the season: 1, Iowa
Teams that started 9 OL over the course of the season: 1, MSU
Of the 6 teams that had no change in their OL line-up or used 6 OL, 5 of them had winning seasons and all 5 won at least 8 games.
Of the 6 teams that used 7 or more OL over the course of the year, 2 of them had winning seasons and only 1 of those 2 won 8 games (Wisconsin, 8-5).
Losing 2 starters to injuries is pretty much a death knell to your OL production. Even a great OL school like Wisconsin suffered after being forced to shuffle the OL. MSU losing 4 starters is more than any other team had to deal with in the league, and the 1 team that was close (Iowa) to that level of attrition had an offense even less effective than MSU's.
In terms of scholarship OL, the Big 10 carries between 9 (Nebraska) and 16 OL (IL). MSU was at 15 during the 2012 season and looks to be at 14 during the 2013 season. This is well within the range of "normal" for a Big 10 OL group.
MSU loses 5 OL after 2013 and so needs to replace those with at least 4 in the '14 class (5 is preferable) to keep the #s in range with "normal".
This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by MalibuMan 14 months ago
247Sports In partnership with CBS Sports