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I disagree. While there is merit to what you say, player development is impacted by coaching and the "name" schools have the $$$ to buy coaches that are respected by NFL teams for how they develop players. Sure, there are players from smaller schools that play in the NFL, a lot, in fact. But that does not prove your argument in the absolute, which is how you present it.
I'm pretty sure less than 50% of NFL draft picks are from non-D1 schools. If you mean non-BCS I still think that % is way off.
Well my apologies then because I took it a little differently. I thought the point he was making was one I tend to agree with. Since we consistently seem to strike out on the 5 star types our staff has targeted the high 3 or low 4 star types that look the part physically and jump off the page, but seem to lack that "footwork" or "technique" or "hand placement" that seperates the 88 ranked player from a 95 ranked player. I think from an athleticism standpoint, especially on the defensive side of the ball we've got by far and away the only Defense in the league that would have a shot at slowing down an SEC team and giving the offense at least an opportunity to keep us in it, assuming it's any other offense but the 2012 version.
I think we've got athletes everywhere and our coaches go after those kids knowing full well we've got the ability to get them there technique wise. We've developed the depth, mostly on defense, for guys to get that season to RS before competing, but they're certainly the equal from an explosiveness standpoint.
ps Henderson is a 97 rating and the no. 2 signal caller on 247 so he's as close to a 5 star as you can get for the most part. Landing him should instill quite a bit of confidence in the future of the offense I would think.
IMO it's different for everyone. Some players get a chance to shine and be a star on a smaller school that they wouldn't necessarily get at a bigger school
There is also defensive and offensive schemes that use players differently regardless of the size of the school.
Many future NFL players will be NFL players no matter where they go (besides injury scenarios).
Yeah, I concur. Definitely not 1 size fits all.
I would want to see a stat that shows how many Alabama players are in the NFL 4 years after graduating vs tOSU vs UofM vs MSU vs CMU.
Then what percent of players that "graduate" to the NFL are still in the NFL at least 3 full seasons later.
This would be a good indication of how good a school is at producing NFL talent.
Then this list can be compared against the recruiting rankings for each school and some kind of success factor can be assigned for each star point given in the recruiting rankings based on the average star-to-Draft Pick ratio for all FBS schools.
An interesting stat would be the chance of making the NFL based on combined star average -
Exp: If you are a 5 star combined ave, based on what percentage of previous 5 stars (in the last 5 years maybe) went to the NFL. Then do the same for 4 star and the 3 star and so on.
I'll bet MSU is near the top.
I'm not sure that is an accurate measurement. I'd like to see how many 4 and 5 star players that go to non-top powerhouse schools that still make it in the first three rounds of the NFL draft. My comment is that if your an NFL quality player, you will make it to the NFL regardless of what school you go to. Certainly there are exceptional schools with horrible staff that may hinder a kid's chance. But if Harris is going to the NFL his chance of getting there is the same if he plays college ball at MSU vs OSU vs Bama, etc.
Thanks for the 2014 recruiting info, guys.
Heard Coach Salem stopped at Cathedral Prep today to talk to FMS and Alex Greenawalt '14 WR. Here is a link to FMS' 2012 Junior Film
Watch all 15 of Felix Manus-Schells athletic and academic accomplishments.
This post was edited by Easteriepa 15 months ago
DW75_: Just talked to Coach Dantonio from #MichiganState #Spartans
Michigan commit Denzel Ward. He's expected to decommit soon, he's very interested in Florida and just moved down there from Chicago.
A lot of decommits recently. Good for Denzel.
"Stats are for Losers." - Pat "Nardawg" Narduzzi
Yep, he transferred to IMG Academy, just like Michael O'Connor
TheTrueQB: Just got a visit today from coach Dantonio, #spartans #imgacademy
Can't hurt things that O'Connor's twitter picture is oh him and fellow Canadian and our own Arjen Colqhoun. Hope we have a decent shot at this stud.
The writing was on the wall. UofM is about to sign 7OL for the 2013 class alone. They have a log jam at OL. Hopefully, more kids come to this reality and ignore the farce that UofM can offer playing time.
Holy shit! Nice catch!!!
I thought our staff would do better than the percentages, so I looked into our 2007 and 2008 classes because those are the only ones that have gone all the way through a kids' college career. I used Rivals as the rankings since I think they're regarded as the best. I also used who was drafted since I had to make a cut off and didn't want to look everyone who made a practice squad as a free agent. If I made any mistakes, I did this in about 15 minutes so...it wouldn't surprise me.
2 stars: 0/7 drafted. Note that Aaron Bates is in this group and so is Foreman, who would have been drafted if not for injuries.
3 stars: 5/12 drafted. 41.7% is pretty darn good.
4 stars: 0/3 drafted. Still surprised Dell didn't get drafted. He hung around on the Broncos for a season or two I believe.
2 stars: 1/7 drafted. Trenton comes up huge!
3 stars: 3/13 drafted. 23.1% still not bad. Note that I am counting JA5 as a draft pick here.
4 stars: 0/1 drafted. Fred Smith, so disappointing.
2 stars: 1/14. 7% - I'm a bit surprised by this low of a number since I've always been of the belief that Coach D was great at working with 2 stars.
3 stars: 8/25. 32% - Can't argue with success. These guys are our bread and butter.
4 stars: 0/4. 0% - Small sample size and such qualifiers, but I'm also surprised no 4 stars out of these two classes "made it".
Nice run down. You really show the bottom line is that MD and staff are producing NFL talent, and it's not all reliant on getting stars.
FWIW, there's a big jump in talent from the '07 and '08 classes to the '09-'13 classes. In terms of average stars, the '07/'08 classes were around 2.7; '09 - '13 were between 3 and 3.3. That means MSU brought in more "risk" players (2-stars) than surer-bets (4-stars) in MD's first 2 years. That flips pretty strongly in '09 and continues on through this year. When I say MD has recruited much much better in recent years, I refer more to him taking fewer and fewer "risky" players; even the 2-stars he's brought in in recent years have been due to injury (Waynes/Lang) or lack of exposure due to extraordinary circumstances (Fennell being Canadian and no playing US football till his SR year).
Also, look at who were named AA's/All Big 10. That's a better measure than NFL draft picks to me, since all we really care about as fans is college production. That'll pick up Pickelman and Foreman in the '07 class, and Adams in '08 (he'll be drafted this year, FWIW).
Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.
Wow didn't realize Waynes was only a two
star. As a RS freshman he looked a lot better than that. He had a solid bowl game and looks like he could take over CB for Adams.
For some reason our 2 stars have a very high success rate.
Foreman, Celek, Robinson, Pickleman, LeVeon, Dennard. Lang and Waynes are likely starters next year
Grwat things in store for Fennell and Bodanis.
Everything I am hearing about Michael O'Connor is that he is an absolute stud. I know it's early, but I am just wondering, is he rated only a 3 star because he just reclassified to the '14 class and people haven't been scouting him much?
He had a great camp @MSU, but broke his leg either right before his SR year or during the beginning of his SR seasons. Never had the chance to be re-evaluated, but the coaches loved his speed and potential.
MSU has had a much higher success rate with 2-stars from '09 forward than between '07 and '08.
2-stars ('07 - '08): Foreman (big success), Dumphord (transfer), PIckelman (solid), CDR (did nothing), Celek (solid), Duran (transfer), Bates (hesitant to include Ks, but obviously had a great career), Deyo (did nothing for 4 years, transfer), T-Robinson (big success), Jamiihr Williams (transfer: Rather), Hueter (career ending injury), Jude (tranfser: rather), Stevens (career ending injury), Myles White (left team: Rather.
Total 2-stars: 14. Big successes: 3 (Foreman, Bates and Robinson). Solid Players: 2 (Pickelman and Celek).
Total successes of 2-stars from '07 and '08 classes: 5/14, 36%
2-stars ('09 - '12): Freeman (contributor), Hoebing (some contribution), Muma (again with the Ks, he's ok at KOs), Bell (big success), Dennard (big success), Dennis (contributor), Palazeti (starter when healthy), Lang (contributed as a RS FR), Waynes (contributed as RS FR, strong bowl game), Fennell (RS), Conklin (RS, technically a walk-on).
Total 2-stars from '09-'12: 11 Big successes: 2 (Bell, Dennard). Solid Players: 3 (Freeman, Muma, Palazeti)
Total successes of 2-stars from the '09-'12 classes: 5/11 or 45% success rate.
A few things to note here:
1. MSU brought in more 2-stars in MD's first 2 classes (14) than they brought in over the next 4 (11).
2. It's clear that the quality of 2-stars brought in recently ('09-present) are of higher quality, both on the field and off.
3. What's amazing is that 5/11 2-stars from '09-'12 can be considered to be contributors, and 4 of the remaining 6 (Lang, Waynes, Fennell and Conklin) are so young that I really can't judge them yet. Really, only Hoebing and Dennis have been minimal contributors and Dennis was known to be a project. Freeman was a solid back-up and played at what I'd call a low 3-star level.
4. MSU makes its $$ on 3-stars, not 2-stars, but it's clear that the staff is not just giving away scholarships to fill roster spots. If a guy gets an offer late in the process now and gets a 2-star ranking, it's probably safe to assume he's got what it takes to make an impact; Lang and Waynes may be starters next year, Conklin could be the heir-apparent at LT and Fennell has gotten good reviews.
5. Off of #4, getting production from the "bottom" of a class is what separates a program like MSU from Iowa in terms of being able to reload. Doesn't sound like much, but there's a big difference between a 6-6 floor and a 4-8 floor.
Bottom line: I'm perfectly fine with MSU taking a "flyer" or two out on a "2-star", especially given the recent history of 2-star successes. MSU should not be recruiting a class filled with 2-stars, but 1-3, depending on their situations, should absolutely not be a cause for panic. Over the past 5 classes (including '13), MSU has brought in more 4-stars than 2-stars and I think that's where they need to continue to recruit at to realistically stay competitive in the conference.
We have the potential for up 6 Freshmen to be in our two deep next year, without any injuries. The playing time pitch wasn't a farce when you look at the numbers we had on the O-line due to attrition and poor scholarship management by the previous coaching staff. After this year, the line recruiting should be back to normal now that the numbers are back up.
My guess is that we'll only be taking 3-4 this year. I would say (assuming Ward decommits) that the primary targets are Tommy Doles, Alex Bars, and Mason Cole, with a random thrown in.
I think OSU will be a bigger player in offensive line recruiting this year than Michigan.
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