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$75K-100K is the fastest growing group not paying fed income tax

  • Surprise. Those in the 75K to 100K range are the fastest growing group not paying any federal income tax. Lets talk tax fairness. Is it fair that those in this income range don't pay anything? In 1996 only 5000 people in this range paid no federal income tax..in 2009 over 500,000 didn't pay any federal income tax.

    If libs want tax fairness. Shouldn't we be asking those who make a good living of 75k or more to contribute federal income tax? Furthermore, is it a good idea to have some 40-50% not paying any fed income taxes? Obama is trying to make those who are already paying the bulk of the taxes pay more..while more and more pay nothing.

    "Amid complaints that nearly half of tax filers in the U.S. won't pay federal income taxes this year, this has been lost: Those making $75,000-$100,000 a year are the fastest-growing share of people who don't pay federal income taxes.

    Not working poor people — but those who are firmly middle class.

    They still make up less than 1% of the total number of income tax filers who pay no tax at all, but their overall number has exploded, from fewer than 5,000 not paying taxes in 1996 to nearly 500,000 in 2009, the most recent year of available data."

    Only 1,470 of whom had adjusted gross income of more than $1 million — owed no income tax, a Detroit Free Press analysis showed.

    On Wednesday, Senate Democrats were talking up an added 5% tax on millionaires, a proposal Republicans almost certainly will block. But as the debate on tax revenue continues, the question of who pays — and who does not — is certain to keep coming up."

    Surprise! Who's not paying federal income tax?

    Surprise! Who's not paying federal income tax?

    abcnews.go.com

    lars

  • How is that even possible?

    spartanMF ●

  • spartanMF said...

    How is that even possible?

    Here is what the article mentioned:

    "A: Tax cuts and tax breaks. As Clint Stretch, tax policy expert at Deloitte, explains it, the tax cuts won by President George W. Bush in 2001 and 2003 not only reduced income tax rates, they doubled the child tax credit from $500 to $1,000; eliminated the marriage penalty by giving couples twice the standard single deduction (rather than a slightly smaller amount), increased the earned income tax credit, cut capital gains taxes and more. All of those items — as well as breaks like those for mortgage interest, charitable deductions and medical expenses — can mean a huge savings.

    But it didn't stop there. President Barack Obama added other breaks, too, like the Making Work Pay credit — worth $800 to a couple or $400 to an individual filer — as well as the American Opportunity Credit for college, worth up to $2,500 per student, on top of the $4,000 tuition and fees deduction. "Mathematically, you're not going to pay taxes" if you have a modest income and qualify for a lot of those breaks, Stretch said."

    However, I think this article fails to mention one big thing and this is home foreclosure and/or bankruptcy due to underwater mortgages. A lot of middle class people got burned by the housing collapse and probably off-set income to those loses.

    Here is my BIG problem with the tax code. I discriminates against those who work hard, but don't have deductions. The tax code is a JOKE! It has to go. The sooner the better. My proposal...simple...a progressive tax code on consumption. The more you consume, the more tax you pay. There would be no tax on grocery items and clothing items under $200 (including shoes). That would take the regressiveness out of the code. People who consume the most (the wealthy) pay the most in tax. There would be NO deductions for anything. There would be no capital gains taxes or estate taxes. Just a big tax at the point of consumption.

    We have the best government money can buy. -- Mark Twain

    ChicagoMark1

  • Why do so many of you conservatives whine about "fairness" and demand that other people pay more taxes?

    Pervis Muldoon

  • Pervis Muldoon said...

    Why do so many of you conservatives whine about "fairness" and demand that other people pay more taxes?

    lol

    Solid.

    spartanMF ●

  • ChicagoMark1 said...

    Here is my BIG problem with the tax code. I discriminates against those who work hard, but don't have deductions. The tax code is a JOKE! It has to go. The sooner the better. My proposal...simple...a progressive tax code on consumption. The more you consume, the more tax you pay. There would be no tax on grocery items and clothing items under $200 (including shoes). That would take the regressiveness out of the code. People who consume the most (the wealthy) pay the most in tax. There would be NO deductions for anything. There would be no capital gains taxes or estate taxes. Just a big tax at the point of consumption.

    You have a point about the tax code discriminating against people who work hard, but a consumption tax certainly wouldn't make things better for working people. The wealthiest people tend to spend a much smaller percentage of their income than the middle class and poor - a consumption tax would be regressive. Why not just a good progressive income tax that taxes all types of income equally, and eliminates the loopholes?

    Pervis Muldoon

  • Flat tax.

    MasonDelhiGuy

  • Pervis Muldoon said...

    You have a point about the tax code discriminating against people who work hard, but a consumption tax certainly wouldn't make things better for working people. The wealthiest people tend to spend a much smaller percentage of their income than the middle class and poor - a consumption tax would be regressive. Why not just a good progressive income tax that taxes all types of income equally, and eliminates the loopholes?

    Not this again.......

    You are proposing a large increase in the capital gains tax. Raising capital gains taxes will lock up billions of dollars of capital and serve to stifle economic growth and innovation. Plus it doesn't raise revenue anyway. A true lose - lose idea.

    Much better would be to broaden and simplify the income tax code bringing rates down to the neighborhood of current capital gains rates which would eliminate the difference in rates which is a major bug up the leftist butt.

    Was the capital gains tax rate raised or lowered prior to the only balance budgets in recent memory?

    This post was edited by RQA on 4/16/2012 at 9:52 PM

    RQA ●

  • RQA said...

    Not this again.......

    You are proposing a large increase in the capital gains tax. Raising capital gains taxes will lock up billions of dollars of capital and serve to stifle economic growth and innovation. Plus it doesn't raise revenue anyway. A true lose - lose idea.

    Much better would be to broaden and simplify the income tax code bringing rates down to the neighborhood of current capital gains rates which would eliminate the difference in rates which is a major bug up the leftist butt.

    Was the capital gains tax rate raised or lowered prior to the only balance budgets in recent memory?

    You start with "not this again" and then respond with all of the same disproven bullshit you've posted before. You've lost that argument. ChicagoMark1 is advocating a consumption tax, and I'm content to discuss that - without having to suffer through your dodges and logic failures.

    Pervis Muldoon

  • Pervis Muldoon said...

    You start with "not this again" and then respond with all of the same disproven bullshit you've posted before. You've lost that argument. ChicagoMark1 is advocating a consumption tax, and I'm content to discuss that - without having to suffer through your dodges and logic failures.

    Dodges? lol

    The noticeable dodge here is your DODGE of my very simple question. Shall I frame it again as a yes or no? lol

    Oh, and this question (the question in my previous post, not "shall I frame it as a yes or no?" lol)must be answered before I will answer any question from you. Pervisian rules!!

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by RQA on 4/16/2012 at 10:36 PM

    RQA ●

  • RQA said...

    Dodges? lol

    The noticeable dodge here is your DODGE of my very simple question. Shall I frame it again as a yes or no? lol

    Oh, and this question (the question in my previous post, not this one lol)must be answered before I will answer any question from you. Pervisian rules!!

    When I said I'd rather not suffer through your dodges and logic failures, I should've included your emoticons, too.

    And don't worry - you'll get no questions from me in this thread. You've already lost this argument.

    This post was edited by Pervis Muldoon on 4/16/2012 at 10:38 PM

    Pervis Muldoon

  • spartanMF said...

    How is that even possible?

    Do you live in a fog, have someone else do your taxes and just sign them?

    $87K per year income for family of 4
    She is a W2 employee making $35K and has health care benefits
    He is a private contractor since the company he works for changed the pay plan and he's now providing his own phone, vehicle and other expenses
    They have 2 children ages 3 and 6
    $175K mortgage @ 5% because they don't have stirling credit and couldn't refi

    They get 4 deductions@ $3700 ea = $14800
    Mortgage interest deduction $11,600
    2 IRA deductions @ $4K each = $8000
    Childcare deduction of $1000
    Child Tax credit for 2 minors
    Education expenses
    His business expenses

    So take that with a family stuck in a $250K mortgage @ 7% they have $21K in interest alone. Its not hard to do if you are stuck in a high mortage with a declining income.

    GRR Spartan ●

  • Nitro Biscuits said...

    Terrible dangerous idea.

    Excellent perfect idea that keeps the government from performing social engineering and puts the IRS out of business.

    flat tax.

    MasonDelhiGuy

  • MasonDelhiGuy said...

    Excellent perfect idea that keeps the government from performing social engineering and puts the IRS out of business.

    flat tax.

    The flat tax is the most regressive and cruel tax system. That must be why you love it.

    Madhatter536

  • Pervis Muldoon said...

    When I said I'd rather not suffer through your dodges and logic failures, I should've included your emoticons, too.

    And don't worry - you'll get no questions from me in this thread. You've already lost this argument.

    Note to all reading along.

    Pervis will NOT answer the question posed to him a mere 9 posts above.

    That question is: Was the capital gains tax rate raised or lowered before the only balanced budget in recent memory?

    Pervis knows the answer, so why won't he answer it? I suspect he doesn't like the answer; doesn't fit the leftist narrative.

    This post was edited by RQA on 4/17/2012 at 6:10 AM

    RQA ●

  • GRR Spartan said...

    Do you live in a fog, have someone else do your taxes and just sign them?

    $87K per year income for family of 4 She is a W2 employee making $35K and has health care benefits He is a private contractor since the company he works for changed the pay plan and he's now providing his own phone, vehicle and other expenses They have 2 children ages 3 and 6 $175K mortgage @ 5% because they don't have stirling credit and couldn't refi

    They get 4 deductions@ $3700 ea = $14800 Mortgage interest deduction $11,600 2 IRA deductions @ $4K each = $8000 Childcare deduction of $1000 Child Tax credit for 2 minors Education expenses His business expenses

    So take that with a family stuck in a $250K mortgage @ 7% they have $21K in interest alone. Its not hard to do if you are stuck in a high mortage with a declining income.

    And these people's total income remains in the American economy unlike Romney's whose growing wealth is partially/wholly off-shore.

    NYGreenie

  • Well as someone who fell in this bracket, I still paid taxes and I took every deduction and credit I was allowed.

    Lars...did you take all your deductions and credits?

    MSULordyoda

  • GRR Spartan said...

    Do you live in a fog, have someone else do your taxes and just sign them?

    $87K per year income for family of 4 She is a W2 employee making $35K and has health care benefits He is a private contractor since the company he works for changed the pay plan and he's now providing his own phone, vehicle and other expenses They have 2 children ages 3 and 6 $175K mortgage @ 5% because they don't have stirling credit and couldn't refi

    They get 4 deductions@ $3700 ea = $14800 Mortgage interest deduction $11,600 2 IRA deductions @ $4K each = $8000 Childcare deduction of $1000 Child Tax credit for 2 minors Education expenses His business expenses

    So take that with a family stuck in a $250K mortgage @ 7% they have $21K in interest alone. Its not hard to do if you are stuck in a high mortage with a declining income.

    First off yes someone else does my taxes. Second, I don't have kids.

    What is an IRA deduction??

    spartanMF ●

  • RQA said...

    Note to all reading along.

    Pervis will NOT answer the question posed to him a mere 9 posts above.

    That question is: Was the capital gains tax rate raised or lowered before the only balanced budget in recent memory?

    Pervis knows the answer, so why won't he answer it? I suspect he doesn't like the answer; doesn't fit the leftist narrative.

    When I said I should've included your emoticons, too, I also should've added your tendency to type words in all-caps when you don't have any facts to back you up.

    You've already lost this argument.

    Pervis Muldoon

  • I find it funny that the GOP is responsible for line items like child tax credits and then howl like stuck hogs when those in the bottom 60%-80% have the audacity to use those deductions to reduce or eliminate their taxes owed.

    I also get a kick out of the way folks can turn a blind eye to how the income distribution has been skewed so much towards those at the very top and then wonder why the shrinking middle class pays less and less.

    GRR Spartan ●

  • How about a flat tax with those umder poverty line paying only a nominal tax like $500 or can work off tye amount through community service. Just so they have some skin in the game and give back for what is provided to them.

    MSUx2

  • The FAIR TAX (not to be confused with the Flat Tax), is the only viable option I have seen that does away with the IRS, all the lobbyist around Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, home ownership, and all the other groups who push for tax breaks. This would help in a huge way to take much of the corruption out of DC.

    I also really hate the whole idea of soical engineering through the tax code (eg. sin taxes) and have found a tax on productive labor to inherently immoral. The income tax must be abolished...now!

    This post was edited by ChicagoMark1 on 4/17/2012 at 10:11 AM

    Amazon.com: The Fair Tax Book: Saying Goodbye to the Income Tax and the IRS (9780060875497): Neal Boortz, John Linder: Books

    Amazon.com: The Fair Tax Book: Saying Goodbye to the Income Tax and the IRS (9780060875497): Neal Boortz, John Linder: Books

    www.amazon.com

    We have the best government money can buy. -- Mark Twain

    ChicagoMark1

  • MSUx2 said...

    How about a flat tax with those umder poverty line paying only a nominal tax like $500 or can work off tye amount through community service. Just so they have some skin in the game and give back for what is provided to them.

    What about having a lower corporate tax, say about 20%, without any deductions?

    NYGreenie

  • ChicagoMark1 said...

    Here is what the article mentioned:

    "A: Tax cuts and tax breaks. As Clint Stretch, tax policy expert at Deloitte, explains it, the tax cuts won by President George W. Bush in 2001 and 2003 not only reduced income tax rates, they doubled the child tax credit from $500 to $1,000; eliminated the marriage penalty by giving couples twice the standard single deduction (rather than a slightly smaller amount), increased the earned income tax credit, cut capital gains taxes and more. All of those items — as well as breaks like those for mortgage interest, charitable deductions and medical expenses — can mean a huge savings.

    But it didn't stop there. President Barack Obama added other breaks, too, like the Making Work Pay credit — worth $800 to a couple or $400 to an individual filer — as well as the American Opportunity Credit for college, worth up to $2,500 per student, on top of the $4,000 tuition and fees deduction. "Mathematically, you're not going to pay taxes" if you have a modest income and qualify for a lot of those breaks, Stretch said."

    However, I think this article fails to mention one big thing and this is home foreclosure and/or bankruptcy due to underwater mortgages. A lot of middle class people got burned by the housing collapse and probably off-set income to those loses.

    Here is my BIG problem with the tax code. I discriminates against those who work hard, but don't have deductions. The tax code is a JOKE! It has to go. The sooner the better. My proposal...simple...a progressive tax code on consumption. The more you consume, the more tax you pay. There would be no tax on grocery items and clothing items under $200 (including shoes). That would take the regressiveness out of the code. People who consume the most (the wealthy) pay the most in tax. There would be NO deductions for anything. There would be no capital gains taxes or estate taxes. Just a big tax at the point of consumption.

    I would love a consumption tax only system. But libs would never go for it. They would say those who earn less consume everything they make and those who earn more wouldn't pay tax on their savings. The best system is a flat tax or two tiered flat tax with no deductions. tier one 15% then 20% tier two. We need to shoot for a 15-17% tax collection rate (historical average)..then the govt needs to live with that number by law and forced to toward a balanced budget in 10 years.

    lars

  • Pervis Muldoon said...

    Why do so many of you conservatives whine about "fairness" and demand that other people pay more taxes?

    Wait? Don't try and turn this around. Its Obama and the libs who say they need fairness in the tax code .. Is it fair that people making 100K pay no fed taxes? Or is it fair that 40-50% don't pay any fed taxes? Just wondering what is fair? Since its the demms who are the ones wanting fairness in the tax code with a 'buffet rule'

    lars

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