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Awesome. 83% of Doctors Consider Quitting After Obamacare Law

  • shioda said...

    The point I made is pretty simple. Premium levels are not going to go down unless claim payments go down. Whether it is a one payer system or the one we have, at least 80 percent or more of premiums must be spent on claims. Since the maximum premium is fixed by claims payments, moving to a one payer system is not going to make insurance more affordable for people as you imply and as stated by the doctor you quote.

    State laws require insurance companies to maintain reserves (your "float") to make sure the insurers will pay claims. Insurance companies still become insolvent, but less so than before reserves were required. Your "float" is a good thing. If insurance companies can make superior investments with the reserves, what's wrong with that? Insurance companies usually lose money on the premiums they charge, but in most cases more than make up for their losses with the investment income off the reserves.

    I certainly want my insurance premiums as low as possible, and I am in favor of anything that lowers them. Obamacare will not lower them, and has resulted in my premiums going up substantially.

    You also seem to forget that doctors' offices and hospitals spend an inordinate amount of time and money just to process claims with dozens of different insurance companies. Going to a single payer system would greatly streamline that process as well.

    I'm also confused why you think it's a problem that an insurance company is required to spend 80% of the premiums on claims. Does that mean you're cool with 30-40 cents of every dollar you pay for your premium going towards sales and marketing and fattening the CEO's wallet?

    MSULordyoda

  • MSULordyoda said...

    You also seem to forget that doctors' offices and hospitals spend an inordinate amount of time and money just to process claims with dozens of different insurance companies. Going to a single payer system would greatly streamline that process as well.

    I'm also confused why you think it's a problem that an insurance company is required to spend 80% of the premiums on claims. Does that mean you're cool with 30-40 cents of every dollar you pay for your premium going towards sales and marketing and fattening the CEO's wallet?

    I agree a single payer system would reduce the costs of running a private office for the doctors. That is one of the reasons I cited for why the physician said what he said ,i.e. we need a single payer system. The fact that the doctors can make more money does not mean that insurance premiums will go down, and as a consequence more people buy insurance. Premium rates are set by law. When an insurance company shows that claims are more than 80 percent of premiums, the rates go up. They only go down when claims payments go down and claims payments almost never go down. And I have no problem with a business having a gross margin of 20 percent (actually 15 percent on large group policies). Not only do they have to pay commissions to the agents that sell the policies, they have to pay staff such as janitors, network administrators, etc. 20 percent of gross is really barebones for most businesses.

    shioda ●

  • GreenMeany said...

    Your basic point still eludes me. You seem to be saying that because the Affordable Care Act dictates that insurance companies spend 80 percent of their premiums on claims, then there is no way a one-payer system would be cheaper. How does that follow? The differences between "Obamacare" and true socialized healthcare are many, and you're simply refusing to account for the fact that countries with one-payer systems tend to pay much less per capita (and tend to get better outcomes).

    There are many variables: for example, the price of administering a system. If a government can do it cheaper (most can), then the cost of supporting the system would reflect those savings. Another variable is preventive health care. If you have everyone pulled into the system, people get treated for things before they become chronic, expensive conditions (or so the argument goes) that hospitals end up paying for with "charity care." Those costs, needless to say, get recycled right back into the system and have to be covered by "paying customers." Etc., etc.,

    Yes, the government knows how to run things cheaper. Just look at the bankrupt post office system. I forgot. Fact is, the government doesn't even run the insurance business for its own employees. They use the same insurers we can all buy insurance from. With the quality of government workers, there is no way our federal government could run a health care insurance system at a lower cost. I would not object, however, to the government creating a buying group that everyone could join and get a lower rate.

    If you don't understand my point, I guess that is my fault. CA has for many years had a law requiring a set percentage of rates be spent on claims. Rates never go down, because claims expenditures always go up. Once claims expenditures go above 80 percent of premiums, the insurance companies get a rate increase. Its that simple. Whether it is a single payer system or not, claims are going to keep going up because of a lot of different factors, none of which are related to the insurance companies administrative costs.

    shioda ●

  • Never saw this one coming.

    Signed

    Libs

    Shortage of doctors spreading throughout US - Nation - The Boston Globe

    Once a problem limited to rural areas, doctor shortages are now hitting large population centers such as Las Vegas and Detroit, where people may wait weeks or months or travel hundreds of miles for care. Nationwide, there is a shortage of more than 13,000 doctors, according to the Association of American Medical Colleges, a Washington-based nonprofit that represents medical schools. That shortfall is expected to grow 10-fold to 130,000 doctors within 12 years

    www.bostonglobe.com

    Compound 2

  • Compound 2 said...

    Never saw this one coming.

    Signed

    Libs

    lol They really don't have even a basic understanding of economics, supply and demand, and human behavior do they?

    signature image signature image signature image

    Adm Spinebender

  • Compound 2 said...

    Never saw this one coming.

    Signed

    Libs

    perhaps the reason is the AMA caps the number of individuals who can be admitted to med schools annually so less are coming out of med schools while the population continues to rise. Then, tuition continues to be ridiculously expensive so going to rural areas (as mentioned here) is not an option for many because the salary is less than if a graduate stayed in a city. Besides, residencies are rarely, if ever, in rural areas which further hurts getting doctors to those areas.

    I don't know if they do it now but when my dad was coming out of residency he got half of his federal loans forgiven by the federal government for going to a rural area with a shortage of doctors - his entire practice was made up of doctors who got the same deal. We need more of that.

    Or you can be an ignorant SOB and blame health care reform.

    "If you have the right to be offended I have the right to offend you." - Ricky Gervais

    Enrico Palazzo

  • Enrico Palazzo said...

    perhaps the reason is the AMA caps the number of individuals who can be admitted to med schools annually so less are coming out of med schools while the population continues to rise. Then, tuition continues to be ridiculously expensive so going to rural areas (as mentioned here) is not an option for many because the salary is less than if a graduate stayed in a city. Besides, residencies are rarely, if ever, in rural areas which further hurts getting doctors to those areas.

    I don't know if they do it now but when my dad was coming out of residency he got half of his federal loans forgiven by the federal government for going to a rural area with a shortage of doctors - his entire practice was made up of doctors who got the same deal. We need more of that.

    Or you can be an ignorant SOB and blame health care reform.

    I wonder why tuition is so expensive? Hhmmm....it can't have anything to do with the government throwing so much money their way. Why don''t all those liberal professors cut their salaries so that this country can have better healthcare?

    Compound 2

  • Adm Spinebender said...

    lol They really don't have even a basic understanding of economics, supply and demand, and human behavior do they?

    Clearly, they do not. They only understand what Paul Krugman tells them.

    Compound 2

  • Compound 2 said...

    Never saw this one coming.

    Signed

    Libs

    "Multiple reasons are driving the shortages. As baby boomers age, their care has become more complex and time-consuming. At the same time, some baby boomers are also doctors who are expected to retire in the coming years, according to the association. One in every three doctors nationwide are older than 55, the group said."

    That article doesn't mention Obamacare ONCE. Also, the fact that 1/3 of doctors are over 55 is a problem that develops over a long, long period of time. This shortage was a couple of decades in the making.

    tRCMB - Visit at your own risk of being disgusted.

    Gob_Bluth

  • Doesn't everyone routinely consider quitting their job?

    Spartytruth

  • Spartytruth said...

    Doesn't everyone routinely consider quitting their job?

    Not when you spend > 10 years in college and graduate 200K in debt you don't.

    Compound 2

  • Compound 2 said...

    I wonder why tuition is so expensive? Hhmmm....it can't have anything to do with the government throwing so much money their way. Why don''t all those liberal professors cut their salaries so that this country can have better healthcare?

    It's called the free market and supply and demand. I thought a connie like yourself would be all for that. Well, maybe not a guy who spent days talking about Canadian milk and getting smacked around like a tennis ball. lol

    This post was edited by Enrico Palazzo on 10/25/2012 at 3:08 PM

    "If you have the right to be offended I have the right to offend you." - Ricky Gervais

    Enrico Palazzo

  • Enrico Palazzo said...

    It's called the free market and supply and demand. I thought a connie like yourself would be all for that. Well, maybe not a guy who spent days talking about Canadian milk and getting smacked around like a tennis ball. lol

    Free Market lol

    You don't even know what a free market is, do you? Tell you what, if I ever have a question about how to eat link a wimp, you're my guy. If I have a question about organic vegetables, kasha, soy foods, etc then you are my # 1 go to source. If I have a question about free markets, you and Barry are the last people I would go to. College tuition is not influenced by a "free market". You're a fool.

    Compound 2

  • Compound 2 said...

    Free Market lol

    You don't even know what a free market is, do you? Tell you what, if I ever have a question about how to eat link a wimp, you're my guy. If I have a question about organic vegetables, kasha, soy foods, etc then you are my # 1 go to source. If I have a question about free markets, you and Barry are the last people I would go to. College tuition is not influenced by a "free market". You're a fool.

    I don't eat soy.

    Wife's organic whole wheat pasta with olive oil, spicy chicken sausage, sauteed kale and grated parmesan the other night was excellent. Last night's turkey meatloaf and organic brown rice was also excellent.

    College charge what people will pay. And if not for government funds tuition would be even higher. If you look at public schools, when state and federal aid is cut tuition goes up to make up for the deficit. Even simpler than figuring out Canadian milk prices.....no wonder you can't figure it out. And if you want more doctors then you need more med schools and more spots in med school.

    "If you have the right to be offended I have the right to offend you." - Ricky Gervais

    Enrico Palazzo

  • Enrico Palazzo said...

    College charge what people will pay. And if not for government funds tuition would be even higher. If you look at public schools, when state and federal aid is cut tuition goes up to make up for the deficit. Even simpler than figuring out Canadian milk prices.....no wonder you can't figure it out. And if you want more doctors then you need more med schools and more spots in med school.

    And what do you think universities could charge if student loans weren't backstopped by the federal government? loco

    "The RCMB on 247 is one of the most awful, alarming, inappropriate, disgusting, and offensive msg boards in the history of the internet."

    JoeSpartyFan

  • Compound 2 said...

    Clearly, they do not. They only understand what Paul Krugman tells them.

    Well, I doubt they actually understand him. They just like it that he always argues for government intervention and irresponsible spending so they agree with him and think he must be brilliant.

    signature image signature image signature image

    Adm Spinebender

  • Enrico Palazzo said...

    And if not for government funds tuition would be even higher.

    Hilarious. You're an economic genius. I suppose you think that if the government gave us all ten grand to buy cars, the price of cars would go down too? You've been spending too much time near the Pacific ocean. The salt water is affecting your brain.

    Compound 2

  • Adm Spinebender said...

    They really don't have even a basic understanding of economics, supply and demand, and human behavior do they?

    Quick question spinebender:

    You speak of having a grasp on "human behavior" amongst other topics...have you or the doctors you stated to be against Obama Care ever volunteer their services at a free clinic or take in a patient at their office who had no health insurance knowing their chances of ever being reimbursed were slim to none?

    Two of my family members are docs who volunteer their services regularly at a free clinic along with many other highly educated, well paid medical professionals who strongly support Obama Care.

    There's no right or wrong answer to my question - only an honest one.

    Spy vs Spy23038

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