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This can go on and on and has for years..but there was an absolutely miserable period, financially, right before Reagan during the Carter years..
So I'm not sure which caused what-did the poor Carter years cause the necessity for the Regan Spending, and did the Regan spending prove wise as we then surged to a surplus? What would have happened had Reagan done things differently and expanded the government and regulations?
We'll never know. This is all why Politics and economics are sort of fascinating.
I'll say this- I am glad to live in a world where I can debate shit with College students and Spartans without being threatened with anything more than a Downvote
There is romance in all of us
Many would argue that the goal of "tax cuts to stimulate economic growth" was merely a pretext to promote the "starve the beast" agenda....which contends that any tax, no matter how low it is, is still too much. The Grover Norquist crowd constantly beats that drum.....which is why you still have many that lament how "taxes are too high on the wealthy" now even though the tax rates for the higher tax brackets are about 2 - 2.5x lower now than where they were in 1980.
"Leave the gun.....take the cannoli"
"It's not your job to be as confused as Nigel."
Please cite ANY authority for a surplus...
Let me try to follow.... Blaming Carter for the mess Reagan got is ok, but blaming Bush for the mess Obama got is not?
And it's pretty clear that we didn't get a surplus because of Reagan. We got the surplus in Clinton's second term. And there was a Bush presidency in between that as well. Reagan was a big spender who had higher tax rates than Obama does, and never submitted a balanced budget. Those are just the facts.
Watching the excuses. It's pretty bad. Republicans lost because of themselves and they won't admit it. You can be Pro-government De-Regulation, cut federal handouts, and have lower tax rates an be a successful party. It's the crazy right wing stuff that is killing them. Until the become more moderate on social issues people my age and what us to be minorities will not support them. I guess the country music playing at the commercial break tells me all I need to know about this channel though
Unfortunately, the vast majority of people in this country rely on sources like Jay Leno and Jimmie Fallon for much of their current events / political information. Hence so many "Jaywalking" candidates!
Either your memory is faulty or your definition of "surging to a surplus" is different from mine. The most recent budget surplus before Reagan was in 1969. The next surplus was in 1998--a decade after Reagan left office and the first of four under Clinton. Is that a surge to you? Do you really think Reagan should get credit for a surplus 10 years after he left office?
The truth is that the Republicans have run two horrendous candidates the past two Presidential elections. McCain is a good man, but he was past his prime. And conservatives had issues with him. Romney owns a car elevator which kind of says it all. He is totally out of touch with normal people. There are people within their party who they could have run, who would be much more appealing, but none of them wanted to run for the nomination.
If I were a strategist for the party my goals would be:
1: Figuring out why we can't nominate an appealing candidate for President.
2: Figuring out a way to attract Latinos into the party. Probably need to lead on a moderate immigration bill.
3: Making sure the next person who we run isn't a white guy over age 60.
i will laugh my ass off when you lose you job, and your house, and end up in your parents basement
you reaction will be priceless
Look(I borrowed that from Obama), I obviously said some things that make you want me to just totally submit to you and tell you I'm sorry, I'm an idiot.
I've been polite, you've been bashing me.. Where in this thread did I say that Obama didn't inherit a mess? You're putting words in my mouth. I've mis spoken, forgotten Presidents and I've been emotional as I am in fact worried for this country. Sue me..
I don't think our contries economic situation is directly tied to the President that resides at that time. Things take time to develop. Each President benefits and loses as a result of history and even because of the president before him (or even the one before that). Damn, I was merely pointing out that the stuff was not black and white. But I've seen Obama do some things..and I've been involved with business enough and know enough business owners that are as frustrated as hell, and it's not just about taxes. It's about business friendliness and the choke hold that some organizations have on their ability to succeed and grow.
I believe that the religious Right is wacked and a problem for the political system as it is set up. And that it should be blown up. Does that help? I'm sorry I ever said the word Socialism. I don't "hate" it..I was just pointing out that economies and governments tend to go that way more and more with time as the populations tend to take what they can get. Does that help?
Congrats on your win. I hope we all succeed..
When you're 47, 10 years doesn't seem like such a long time .No excuse though. I was trying to make the point that the cause and effect thing is a weird tough argument either way. I did in fact stretch it there, yes. Sorry..but Reagan did in fact swing things out of the doldrums (the Carter years) and it took an investment (deficit) to do it.
Did that cause the explosion that ensued two decades later? I dunno. The numbers went from big to pretty crazy from 1988 to 2008. Now they are just staggering.
Who are you talking to?
Make it the last three candidates. I've been Republican my whole life, but the party is a mess.
One of the common themes of conservative pundits is that Obama blames Bush for inheriting the mess. It has been run with by conservatives talking about the election. For example:
I'm glad that you acknowledge that the previous administration causing a mess takes some cleanup. That's more honest than most are on the subject.
I'm not trying to get under your skin and insult you. Sorry if I did. I'm just sick of the discourse in this country that wants to "take our country back", and refers to anything the government does as "socialism" and "redistribution of wealth". It's ridiculous and it does nothing but hurt our ability to move forward as a country.
It's true. They need to do some soul searching on how to update the party. Guys like Limbaugh and Hannity are not helping.
I would like you to specify what taxes you are talking about. Also explain your comment about "business friendliness." What constitutes "the choke hold that some organizations have on their abiltiy to succeed and grow?" I am really curious.
First, thanks Man, for being human about it too..
I got seriously off track and off base with my memory of the various presidents and history/timing of shit, so that caused me some greif here
But I agree too that constant tunnel visioned bashing of a particular party is not good for success..I think the Republican Party is focked up because of all the old timers and their religious and stubborn views, just as I think some of the extremely Democratics tend to assume that all Republicans are greedy cheating bastards without a heart.
Is obama in touch with normal people?
By the time this campaign ended Romney proved to me and many other doubters to be a competent, able candidate who was also a very decent human being. Being rich probably didn't stop you from supporting Kerry or wouldn't have clouded your view on JFK either. At least Romney EARNED his wealth (unlike either of those two).
And what the fuck is wrong with being white and over 60 anyway? One of the most idiotic comments of your diatribe.
You obviously bought into the media koolaid that the Obama people wanted you to hear.
BTW just had a meeting with an investment adviser. He told me to expect a double dip recession next year. Who's your man going to blame then???
Oh, he got it going in this country. Got it going right down into the shitter of debt and financial de-regulation.
I would rather watch nbc and see Matthews finger his clit, or Maddow jerking off..
The Carter inflation was caused by printing money to pay for the Vietnam war (it worked). The early Reagan recession was a business cycle downturn exacerbated by high interest rates intended to quell the inflation. The ensuing Reagan "boom" was fueled by the massive stimulus of tax cuts and spending increases (much of it for defense) which nearly tripled the national debt.
By "not just about taxes", I meant that these guys and business leaders I know are actually not really bitching about tax rates. They've been pretty constant and a % here and there doesn't change much.
One example of the choke hold I speak of is the Government sending in regulatory agencies because of a false whistle-blower..on many subjects. And the subsequent $ that has to be spent on Lawyers and time away from business for these tasks.
Another is the time a business has to spend on fighting off a Union and it's accusations as they recruit good people..these good people rejected them in a huge fashion here, btw.
Another is the way the staffing has to be built in order to satisfy regulatory agencies and the documentation and paper trail that has to be submitted and on file. I can't go into specifics for obvious reasons (confidentiality)
Another is the "mandatory" minimum wage and how it affects people as small as a Subway restaurant owner
Another is the fact that our personnel department has tripled in just the last 3 years. It isn't just because the company is growing. It's because of the fact that everyone and every single conversation has to be recorded and documented to avoid future frivilous lawsuits and/or accusations and/or medical leave and/or workers comp claims.
Another example is the video recording necessary to document injuries that most often don't happen.
Another is the permits and applications to get any capital expansion projects accomplished. It's excrutiating. Ever seen a Government worker in a hurry? I haven't.
And the government and the agents that affect businesses are constantly striving to prove that they are necessary and need more staffing. Beauracracy at work..
The bottom line is that the business owners feel like the government is their enemy, not their friend. They are not trying to promote business growth. While the employees themselves love these people..and their jobs. They are glad for their jobs, mostly, but a few bad potatoes can really cause a lot of greif and money.
dont forget he changed the way unemployment rates were calculated to make his numbers better. The same formula that the reds were bitching about all year, saying "but people have dropped out, and it doesnt count the underemployed". Well thats how your hero got the numbers down in the 80's, by not counting Mcdonalds employees working part time
another example business men that have to spend all their time coming up with fake reasons to blame the Dang old Gobment because their shitty business failed and they cant pay illegals (that they hate)a dollar a day to work their subway counters.
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