In partnership with CBSSports.com
The largest and most active MSU Spartans board on the web
The place to ask questions to SpartanTailgate's recruiting experts
"The Duff" is dedicated to Michigan State football recruiting discussion
"The Bres" is dedicated to Michigan State basketball recruiting discussion
This is your pulpit to preach to the masses about everything from politics to religion
The place to buy, trade or sell Michigan State tickets
You have no favorite boards.
The most viewed topics.
The most replied to topics.
The most up-voted topics.
The most down-voted topics.
The most up-voted posters.
The most down-voted posters.
The most followed posters.
Voting yes on Prop 1, and no on 2-6.
If Prop 2 passes, Prop 1 will definately be needed.
STFU!!!! No one cares what you think!!!
Haters gonna hate!
Something may be needed ... just not Prop 1.
This post was edited by bulldogg 20 months ago
Yeah, because letting people have a say in their working conditions is a reason to overthrow democracy and recreate Michigan as a dictatorship.
I'm no on all, but I can understand why someone might vote yes on 1...
'Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable'
- President John F. Kennedy
You "changed" your position to this? Or do you mean, you read Rick Snyder's recommendations?
Or he did research and saw that all of the constitutional proposals are a bad idea. And that PA 4 is needed. It's not just Snyder who is recommending Yes on 1, no on the rest. Both Detroit papers (conservative and liberal) agreed.
Let me get this down, $100 million. Oh wait, I have a better idea. Instead of $100 million, how about I send you a hobo's dick cheese?
Yeah, let's keep PA 4 so we won't need any more elections in Michigan because ricky will be the dictator instead of the governor.
Your hypocrisy on this was well-documented in another thread. You carry the torch against Prop 1 because you want to defend democracy against "dictatorship",but you are an ardent supporter of Prop 2, which will completely subvert the will of the people to elect state legislators, school boards, and local governments to pass labor laws and budgets that Prop 2 will eviscerate.
Just admit the real reason you're voting no on one and yes on two. You're blindly following the company line given to you by a political party or whatever union you belong to. Don't act all high and mighty like you are some white knight trying to defend democracy and working people against the evil dictator.
This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by Les Grossman 20 months ago
I don't belong to a political party and never have. I am self employed and don't belong to a union. leslie wrong again.
That you as a card carrying repub/connie think that democracy is bad and dictatorship is good is also no surprise.
This post was edited by Madhatter536 20 months ago
I voted the same. I kind of wonder why the unions are pushing no on 1. I understand the democracy issue but I would think that by the time it gets to the mess that Detroit, Pontiac, River Rouge got into, they would have had plenty of time to get it straightened out. Lack of political will usually means nobody is willing to make the hard decisions regarding the necessary austerity. If proposal 1 doesn't pass, why would the state throw money at a government entity that hasn't fixed its problems. I would think the resulting bankruptcy would be worse for the unions. I don't think the other proposals should be cluttering the constitution. Let the legislature and governor decide and if you don't like it, vote them out.
If Prop 1 passes, ricky can't be voted out because he becomes the Dictator instead of the Governor.
The reason is simple (and selfishness on behalf of the unions). Emergency managers can only be appointed in cases of extreme failure by the local officials. Sometimes the cause of the bankruptcy is ridiculous contracts that were negotiated with unions. Currently, emergency managers can invalidate those contracts in order to make the district or municipality solvent. Unions are happy to keep collecting money that literally bankrupts their community, and thus, don't want emergency managers to have that power.
A perfect example of this is the Muskegon Heights school district. For over a year, when insolvency was clearly evident, the union refused to negotiate to avoid an emergency manager being appointed, they wanted to keep all that they had, and were confident they could keep it going. When an emergency manager was appointed, they suddenly wanted to negotiate. Then the unions took to the media, crying out about "What about the CHILDREN!".
Somehow, I missed that verbiage in that proposal. I do like Snyder but I don't want him as my imperial leader.
Total BS. You are either woefully ignorant, or simply lying. Voting yes on Prop 1 keeps existing laws as they are.
That is my point. I just don't understand the unions riding a municipality or school district right to the ground. I would think they end up in worse shape in bankruptcy than dealing with an emergency manager. I assume pensions are safe in school districts but I wonder if municipalities can push off the pension obligations into the PBGC so that employees take a bad haircut.
I think Madhatter is expressing his frustration in the form of sarcasm. While I am on the opposite end of the political spectrum, I think he is a reasonably intelligent fellow.
And the existing laws make ricky a dictator. Going back to the previous version, which is what happens if Prop 1 goes down, returns the power to the people. I know you connie/repubs hate that thought.
Not frustrated about Prop 1 going down. That's a given. As for your assessment of my intelligence, thanks. However a lot of frustrated repubs/connies will no doubt take exception to that assessment.
+1 for you Ron, I think the yes-no-no-no-no-no campaign will succeed today.
The employees are absolutely better off under an EM than they are in bankruptcy. Look at what is going on in Stockton CA and Scranton PA. I am not a bankruptcy law expert but I know that pensions can be affected by these problems. Pension assets cannot be taken but bankruptcy can force munis to stop making contributions to the pension plans which could render the pension plans insolvent.
THEY have an old saying at the fire station on Mulberry Street, next door to Scranton’s city hall: “I don’t know who the new mayor is gonna be, but I hate him...
Bankrupt Stockton, Calif., faces a s public pension system.
This post was edited by Les Grossman 20 months ago
Unions hate the EM because the EM can void union contracts.
247Sports In partnership with CBS Sports