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I thought I'd throw some of you a bone and post my thoughts on last nights election. For some ungodly reason, many of you are obsessed with me and I seem to anger, enrage, and upset many of you far more than what I think is evenly remotely rational. I haven't read the board yet, so I wanted to make this post before I read much of the hate and vitriol that I'm sure is contained in it's pages.
For starters, I was wrong about what I thought the outcome of election would be. I am often accused of refusing to admit when I am wrong. And although I did not talk often that I expected a Romney victory, I did actually think that Romney would win. I thought the election would be close (and in a sense it was in regards to the popular vote), but I thought Romney would win Ohio, Florida, and maybe even steal Penn or Wisconsin. I did not expect last night to pan out the way it did at all.
I'm sure many of you are bouncing off the walls this morning with happiness that Obama won the election. However, I think (and I have said this before) that this country has incredible deep structural problems. No matter who wins, I have always thought there is going to be an economic crisis sometime during this upcoming Presidency. I thought and hoped that it would be Romney that would have to deal with this mess, but unfortunately, it is going to be Obama. I don't see anything on the horizon that looks remotely close to a solution for our economic woes. We are going to have at least 1 trillion dollar deficits going forward (more if entitlements aren't tackled or if the bond market craps out and interest rates rise). Taxing the "rich" is not a solution and does nothing to bring in the revenue needed to balance our deficit. We will not and mathematically can not continue to borrow and print today and put off the doom of tomorrow. There is no free lunch. And the structural imbalances continue to build every day until one day the whole thing implodes. We are getting closer to that day. I know many of you think the economy is getting better. I disagree. I think the economy is very bad. And I think it's only going to get worse, especially with no real solutions being offered.
The other side of our problem has to do with what kind of country we want going forward. I know many of you are now thinking "Bush, Bush, Bush", and yes, Bush was far from perfect. But for the past 4 years we have had a President who declares wars by himself, passes NDAA that takes away our civil liberties (yes I know, just like the Patriot Act), and essentially just does whatever he wants with no regard for the structure of our government. He also seems to have no problem lying with impunity. It is simply amazing how often he lies. This is a very dangerous road to go down and for some reason many of you who cried the loudest when Bush abused his powers seem to relish the same behavior when Obama does it.
I am often accused of wanting people to die. Wanting them to have no money. Wanting them to live a life of suffering, etc, etc. Quite to the contrary, I want everyone to have a happy and fulfilling life. There are probably two or three exceptions on this board of people who I just really feel are bad people. People full of hate. People who are not honest in any way. People who just have serious problems. With those exceptions, I really want the best for all of you even those of whom I think are incredibly off base with their thought process. I have no malice towards 99% of the people on this board. I am however very concerned about this country going forward. I know many of you are very happy today and that is fine. But my personal opinion is that the election of Barack Obama is going to go into the history books as a very serious mistake. Both financially and in regards to civil liberties, I think the whole thing is a mess and will continue to get much worse going forward. Economic chaos does not go well with freedom and liberty. Redistribution of wealth, class warfare, pitting one group of people against the other, does not tend to live in harmony with a free people. I hope I'm wrong, but I see no real "solutions" being offered by Obama. And most of his supporters don't seem to concerned either.
Anyway. Spin away now. And tell me how much you hate my guts, how stupid I am, how it's the Republicans fault, etc, etc. I hope I'm wrong, but in 2-3 years I think many of you will actually not be fans of the President.
too bad, so sad
We've got depth. We've got numbers.
Look at the bright side - gold is up today, so there's that
Maybe we are looking at different charts. I see gold down $15 and silver down 83 cents. Which makes a ton of sense. Huge future deficits = gold price going down.
You're right, it was up, now down
Hmmm, not sure you could accuse the WH Libs of being "remotely rational".
I've read your post and given it a lot of thought. Go stick your thumb up your ass.
I must be crazy to be in a loony bin like this.
Thanks for making my point for me about 2 or 3 people on this board who are legitimately the scum of the earth.
You tell people to kill themselves. You call people Nazis on a regular basis. You are scum.
Can you get out of my thread please? I'm sure there is some Jew hating web site that you can go spend some time with like minded people on.
It's ridiculous that you say Jew hating things and then freak out when people call you out for hating Jews. Get out of my thread. You disgust me.
And there's the compound we all know. Of course, he'll never back up these claims with a link, even though this boards has been up for two years now.
I think I'll keep posting here because you've been very rude. Apologize, admit you're lying and maybe I'll give you a break.
You know you said it on the old board Roshamon. You're not fooling anyone. Not everyone is as stupid as you are. Any honest person who has been actively following the boards for more than 2-3 years knows who you are and what you believe.
"I'm sure the board is sick of this. Let's move on." - Compound, just a couple weeks ago
Maybe you should start a poll. You're claiming to speak for the board. So, man up and ask them what they think. Or better yet, come up with a SINGLE anti-semetic quote from me. You have TWO YEARS posting, over 12,000 posts to work with. Surely you can come up with ONE QUOTE. Unless of course you're being dishonest.
Lying piece of shit. Keep it up, we'll get another time out in no time.
This post was edited by RP McMurphy 20 months ago
I tend to agree with what compound is saying. However that civil liberty issue is a wash and at least we see some movement toward allowing gays to marry. That legitimate rap bs really killed the women's vote. The GOP would keep the status quo and we would see no change. That gave the dems a push.
On the economy: and compound be honest. With so much special interest money being poured in do you think Mitt would be that big of a change? I mean honestly people are in gov to line their pocket books and those that supported them. Mitt would have been status quo with gov defense spending going up.
I sat this one out because I saw no change from either group.
I don't know what kind of change Romney would have made as far as the debt and deficit. I'm guessing it probably would not have been the kind of change we really need (i.e. the kind that Ron Paul or Gary Johnson advocate for). And although my perspective tends to be a bit of "doom and gloom", I really am of the opinion that a huge crisis is coming our way. It's very difficult to make economic forecasts. There are so many variables that history is never really exactly the same twice. However, if anyone reads books on monetary history and what happens to currencies when they are treated the way that we treat ours, I find it difficult to conclude anything other than the dollar is going to be doomed. I think this would have happened whether Romney won the presidency or not. The main reason I wanted Romney in there is because I would rather have him as President to "pick up the pieces" and try to figure out how to fix our economy than Obama (not that Obama's economic prowess has not been impressive over the past 4 years ).
Also, and maybe this is me just being naive (a real possibility, I'm not being sarcastic this time), but I worked worked with Mitt Romney's newphew for a couple years when I was an accountant. From what I can tell, I really think Mitt Romney is a good person and I think he really wanted to be President because he believed it was the right thing to do and he wanted to try to fix our country. I probably disagree with some of things he would have done, but I think his heart is in the right place. I don't think he was going into government to "line his pockets".
Somehow this post reminds me of the one which was posted at the start of the Iraq regarding the likely outcome of that adventure.
Like that post it will be interesting to see how far away reality will be from this senario.
Lurking on tRCMB since 1996
You presented very honest and heartfelt thoughts in this post so I intend to respond likewise.
I think what you are experiencing here is a conflict between the lies and misinformation fed to you by the conservative information bubble and cold hard reality. This one cannot be rationalized away by the conservative media industry. It's rare to have that worldview contradicted so starkly by irrefutable facts immune to political spin but here we are. So you have to ask yourself "have they been lying to me all along?" "are they actually providing unique information or merely telling me what I want to hear for a quick buck?"
There is a great article on "epistemic closure" which explains this disconnect between fantasy and reality on the right in detail. I really think you should read it and I'll link it below. It is a real danger in this technology driven world where we can easily and instantly filter information to fit our biases, especially when there is an endless supply of dishonest hucksters willing to feed it for profit. The left is certainly not immune to this phenomenon, but currently the right is especially vulnerable given the widespread belief that most information sources are biased and therefore you can ONLY believe the hucksters. Hopefully this election will represent the first crack in that bubble. Everyone has to share the same realities and the same facts if we're ever going to work together to fix the problems you listed.
That said, I share a lot of your concerns about the future of this country, but I don't see the re-election of Obama as a death sentence. Obama has tried, and I believe will continue, to address these issues. Not by "only soaking the rich", but with a combination of tax increases and spending cuts... the solution we all knew must happen anyway. If the Republicans in the House can find it in themselves to care more about the country than either their blind ideology or petty hate for the President for just a little bit, they might find a surprisingly moderate Republican-like player sitting in the White House willing to give them some, not all, of what they are asking for. That is the reality.
It's time the "socialist, marxist, muslim, commie, terrorist loving, most liberal President ever" fantasy dies.
No offense Trapper, but since you say printing money does not cause price inflation, I'm not surprised you think our economy is just peachy.
I read tow sentences and my thought is - who is the one who is "obsessed"?
I'll try to give this article a read soon. I fail to see though any spending cuts Obama has offered. At least anything of consequence. And the tax increases don't come even close to closing any sort of revenue gap.
Thanks Bob. You are a great citizen of the world.
Two falsehoods in one sentence is only about par for you.
1 - By "printing money" you probably mean the increase of the Fed's balance sheet which offset the sudden reduction in economic activity during the finaical crash. You are aware I hope that the Fed can reduce the money simply by selling the assents in their balance sheet and taking the resultant dollars off the balance sheet.
2 - No our economy is not "peachy". It is however in much better shape than 4 years ago and moving to a stronger balance sheet position than it was for most of the time we had that Ultra Conservative Greenspan running the Fed. Given the underlying fundamentals and the babyecho demographics we are looking at reasonable expansion after we clear up the commerical real retate bubble.
Who do you think is going to buy 4 trillion in toxic assets Trapper?
People who see them as a good deal. However you are assuming that they are "toxic"...which some of the mortage bonds may be but none of the US Treasury bills, notes and bonds will be...and since the point of the Fed selling them is to reduce the Fed balance sheet selling the mortage bonds at less than face is a good thing.
This post was edited by TrapperGus 20 months ago
I don't hate Compound. At least he's man enough to show up here after R-Money lost. As I said in another thread, we're all Americans here, even though I think most cons/repubs are misguided, closed-minded, and ignorant.
Don't forget unlearned, backwards, rednecks, and morans!
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