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You can smoke all you want on your private property. Serve liquor (requiring a license), serve food (requiring a license), or hire employees (subject to regulations), and that private property is now subject to the laws and regulations that comes with those licenses and permits. If you want to suggest that government should have no role in regulating smoking in those spaces, would you also suggest that there be no licenses or inspections for serving liquor or food, and that regulations regarding employees (let's say OSHA) should be eliminated.....
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." --Gandhi
Yes. If I had to choose all or nothing. Yes. With government there is no rolling back rules and regs...only piling on and always adding more. So, yes, I am prepared to live in a caveat emptor society in exchange for maximum personal freedom and privacy.
Fair enough. I think that's a intellectually consistent position........
Wow. +1 That was amazingly refreshing. Rare on this insane excuse for civil discourse to actually experience civil discourse. Bravo Heathens. We can agree to disagree and then go have a beer...at a non smoking bar of course.
I don't smoke cigarettes, but I've been a clove smoker since my days at State. It was always damn social as clove smokers would come out of the woodwork if I had one. Beer and a clove.....hmmm......
Hmmm. I have never smoked. Well actually 1 or 2 cigars a year at appropriate events I suppose. Special herbs now and then. Never had a clove cig, I would try that.
Back in the day, I would walk into Campbell's and they were on the counter before I even asked. Hipster alternative kids hanging out at B'zar and Flat, Black, and Circular, smoking cloves. Waxing nostalgic about smoking. Who knew?! ;)
I was just in FBC. I have some vintage hifi and 2 crates of vinyl I was looking to sell. The owners were very cool still. Know anyone who wants a rare and exotic Strathclyde belt drive turntable with a Sumiko Premiere carbon fiber tonearm and an Audioquest high output moving coil cartridge that needs a new stylus?
Prior to law. One dumbfuck could ruin the air for everyone else.
After law. Dumbfuck has to go outside and everyone else breathes good air.
Simple enough for you or do I need to break it down further?
Yes, in a place that is under its control.
But nobody is forced to enter a bar, a restaurant, or any other privately owned business.
It's the business owner that should decide what's best for his business.
And people can choose to go there or choose not to go there.
It's as simple as that really.
Is this simple enough? The owner of the bar should decide, just as he could toss your ass out for whatever reason he wanted, (like say using the word dumbfuc* in an inappropriate venue.) It is his bar (private property)....not the customers' or the government's. If I wanted to start a bar called "Smokers Heaven Bar and Grill" with a HUGE sign outside that said "No smokers wanted or needed. If you don't like smoke don't come in". In a free market and free society I should be able to. It is called choice. Simple concept.
You're missing the point. What is so hard to understand?
What is that, a Titleist? A hole in one...
You guys just don't understand. The founding fathers never dreamed what a complicated world this is. We can't be responsible to make free will choices. We need the government to tell us what to do and when to do it. After all, their just looking out for our best interests.
This is true...and it might even work.
I really like this particular reg though as it means I can go I to any bar and not smell like an ash tray afterwards.
It also means that all bar owners are in equal footing....nobody loses business by making a decision to favor non smoking customers....it just sucks for the smokers who have to go outside to smoke at every venue.
Under this law can you put in one of those hyperventilated glass smoking booths?
That's not the point though.
It's the freedom for the bar owner to make that decision that affects his business, not the government making that decision for his business for him.
It's a very spoiled and entitled notion for everyone to want to use the government like their personal rule making attack dog. Take some responsibility for yourself and make choices based on what you believe is right for you... not what is right for everyone on your behalf. And let others do the same.
It is sort of the point right?
We could I suppose choose to live in a society with zero regulations...but as soon as we accept that there will be regulations, then we are in the business of choosing good ones vs bad ones.
I like this one.
There are needs for regulations. Nobody argues that. When the government regulates your private property that is going too far. You sheep will just go along with it. Can any of you left wing nut jobs (Bob S) think for yourself? I see no evidence of it.
If the government doesn't regulate, you have no private property. Think about it.
A contradiction. A paradox.
A parable: A kite flew high in sky. Over the houses, over the trees. Few kites had ever flown so high. The ki
This post was edited by John Dewey 14 months ago
As I said, as soon as we allow regulation, we start deciding which ones are good, and which ones are bad...I like a lot of the regulations that are out there in restaurants and bars that are private property...say enforcing a legal drinking age as an example, or restaurant health codes, or fire codes for hotels, structural codes for hotels..you know, stuff designed to keep me alive.
I'm sure you would rather live in a society where these things are not regulated, but I travel...a lot...and I like to know that the buildings I'm staying in are safe, and that the food I eat is safe.....and I don't like smelling like cigaretts so I'm willing to give up that freedom as well.
I don't mind regulations. To quote Walter Sobchak, "there are rules." But some rules are just stupid (like not being able to throw a frisbee on a beach in California). Common ground needs to be met between city officials and citizens, and stipulations need to be pointed out (city, state or federal regulations) to create the best scenario.
yes....you and walter are correct.....especially the frisbee rule
It is more than an attempt to benevolently protect the public. It has become a warped cottage industry where morons who know nothing about the real world and running a business create terrible problems for those wanting to start or run a small business. This article about a lefty simply trying to get permission to rent out his urban condo is a perfect example of the labyrinth of poorly thought out policies that the left thinks are great ideas. Just a bit here for those too lazy to open the link.
"But it has, to some degree, become a partisan issue because upper middle class progressive intellectuals often know nothing about the real effect of the regulations they do so much to promote. The reason for this is simple: they are almost never in the position of running businesses. Without a grounding in how things actually work, our brilliantly educated lawyers and policy wonks and professors and pundits develop complex regulatory structures and systems that have unexpected impacts and unpredictable but very damaging side effects."
"Reforming these systems is difficult because entrenched interests—often public sector unions and big city political machines eager to find job slots that can go to deserving supporters—so warp the politics of the Democratic Party that it becomes a lobbying group for the producers of government services."
This currently starts at the top as our current president has ZERO private sector experience or rudimentary business knowledge, but is true all the way down to state government and big city mayors/councils and even to the local yocal who sits on a rural township board and screws with the local breakfast diner, bar, motel or convenience store without any actual experience in a small business at all.
This post has been edited 3 times, most recently by Adm Spinebender 14 months ago
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