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How did this happen? Some of you guys must have been asleep at the switch.
Already started looking for work out of state. Snyder and the MI GOP can go get fucked.
tRCMB - Visit at your own risk of being disgusted.
But wait, can't you work in this state?
About the only positive political news I have heard since the election.
All it means is you don't have to join a union in order to work at a place with a union.
It really only matters in businesses without unions now. Can you imagine GM hiring line workers and them coming in and opting out of the union? They'd never make it.
I'll be taking a massive pay cut, most likely. I teach.
So your pay is higher for the same work if you are in a union or will the union find you a better teaching job than one in Michigan?
I have a friend who teaches in Dansville schools, she was a union rep and got so frustrated with all the anti-union stuff going on that she is talking about quitting that role.
My pay is absolutely higher as a union member. You know what else is better? My working conditions and my job satisfaction. Just take a look at the unfolding disaster in Muskegon Heights. The whole state is going to look like that if this shit keeps up. A large part of the education workforce is going to leave either the state or the profession because you can't expect to retain elite talent if you're paying them a pittance.
I do my job because I love it, not for the roughly $28K a year teaching brings home. If we end up taking big paycuts because of this legislation, I'm not going to be able to afford to teach. Same story for a lot of other young, passionate teachers. This legislation is terrible for the state.
Muskegon Heights is like Dodge City without money. I can't yet buy that they represent a precedent for the rest of the state, but I get where you are coming from. I think unions are suffering from the backlash of so many years of their will being forced on folks that aren't union.
I don't know how it will balance out, but once Proposal 2 went down, we should all have seen this coming.
Don't believe the MEA hype.
Going RTW won't mean a pay decrease for you.
Your union is trying to scare you, because they're scared. They will no longer be able to force membership, and this sustain their inflated sense of worth, for providing very little.
You still have the right to bargin collectively, you still have the right to unionize. It just means the district can hire teachers, and they don't automatically have to join the union.
If the union would actually provide a benefit,
It would make sense for someone to join. It'll actually increase the value of unions, for members and their dues.
You can't be serious that you make 28k as a full time teacher.
Nobody here is going to believe that.
"$28K that teaching BRINGS HOME"
Take home pay.
Still have the right to bargain collectively for now. This is just another step in the gradual weakening of unions (except for police and firefighters, can't touch them. But fuck teachers!) The unions will continue to get weaker, districts will no longer have much of an incentive to bargain in good faith, and then teachers won't have a say in things like curriculum development, working conditions, class sizes, sick leave, school hours, and plenty of other things aside from salary and benefits that directly impact job satisfaction.
It's bullshit that educators aren't treated as professionals. You're willing to entrust me with educating your precious little children, but you aren't willing to show my profession any respect. Disgusting.
You're part of the problem. What do you hope to gain by destroying public education?
If the union is strong now, which according to you, means a great learning environment for the kids, why are so many districts under performing?
I think it's not the quality of education, but the lack of parental involvement in the under performing districts. You could pay a teacher $1 or $100,000 and it wouldn't make a lick of difference in many of these districts.
I think it's irresponsible to equate teacher pay to student performance.
Again I stress, if the union provides tangible benefit, new teachers will join, and the union will stay strong. If the union continues on their course of getting dues, coming oh with a talking points news letter, and doing next to nothing for the teacher, it'll go away.
Also, find me another professional that is at work for 6.5 hours a day, has every weekend and holiday off, a free two weeks off at Christmas, one week in the spring, and 2.5 months off in the summer. Also gets a pension and health after 25 years, and gets to accrue as many sick days as they want over the life of the employment, and be paid for them.
I know many many teachers, and I know the "we grade at home" bit. It's not 2 hours a night every night. So if you want to be treated like a professional, act like one. Don't whine when your boss (the tax payer) decides the system needs to be tweaked.
That sounds great in a textbook, but is pretty weak in reality. You seriously can't imagine people saying no to the union because they know that they will be able to reap the benefits and let the others bear the cost?
Make union membership mean something, and people will join.
Collective bargaining is protected. You don't need a union to collectively bargain.
Are you really this fucking stupid?
Formerly Venomous Green Duck. Join Date: Nov. 2004 # of posts: 17,867.
What is rather funny is that no one questions why fire and police are excluded. Let's have a real debate and give everyone the right to work. I mean are we saying that police do not want to work?
Maybe we should all be a bit more honest with each other.
Muskegon Heights emergency mgr turned the Heights Public Schools over to Mosaica Education, a private company to run they system as a K-12 charter in May '12
Now 25% of the teachers have quit in the first 3 months.
"We’ve had a turnover of staff that we did not anticipate,” said Alena Zachery-Ross, Mosaica’s Regional Vice President.
She says some of the teachers were leaving in the beginning of the school year because there was no discipline policy in place yet. Since then, she says other teachers have left for jobs at traditional public schools with better pay and benefits."
People with college degrees left for more money and better benefits. Didn't see that coming.
The high school principal quit
"The high school principal quit before the first week of class. Zachery-Ross had to cover that position until a new principal was hired in October." So they went about 6 weeks with the Supt acting as HS principal.
No other K-12 charter school system operates in the state. the emergency manager said he would be the authorizer of the charter and would appoint the charter school board.
Over the summer Muskegon Heights schools’ then emergency manager laid off everybody who worked at the district and hired Mosaica Education to run
You really think wages will go up and/or benefits for workers/teachers will be better without unions?
Maybe if you are a teacher or worker who opts out of the union then you opt out of the health plan and wage scale negotiated. Will teachers who work at districts where the administration and clerical workers don't have MESSA health insurance opt out of the union and take the administrator's insurnce since they aren't in the union?
This is my question.
Will there be two separate contracts for the union workers and the non-union workers?
The union sits down with the administration to negotiate the contract. Will the non-union workers get a completely different contract handed down to them by the administration? Or will they reap the benefits of the union-negotiated contract without having to pay any dues? If that is the case what's the draw for ANYONE to join the union, given a choice.
What I find remarkable is that teachers decided to unionize in the first place. I cannot think of any other profession in which someone with a Masters degree makes the decision to place negotiating rights in the hands of a faceless Union representative.
That said: charters don't historically provide much better in regards to student performance (at least in Detroit), so this idea that it's the union's fault students are performing poorly isn't well-rooted in the evidence.
Muskegon Heights is an absolute shithole, and its school system was broke. what do you propose the district should have done?
I think we should take some of these people, and send 'em up to Bear Mountain for a picnic.
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