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Sign in here if you will you be taking the additional training and then applying for an enhanced CPL once the senate bill that was passed the other day passes the house and is signed by the governor. It will take effect on May 1, 2013.
Although I'm trying to picture how, in practice, this is going to work. I was some spare change away from getting a full cavity search at the Lion's game this weekend. How will 8000 pistol carriers work in that process?
This post was edited by TravelinMan 16 months ago
maybe they could restrict cpl holders from attending events where large crowds gather
sure, have a gun - but you can't come to football games, movie theaters, etc.
seems reasonable to me
We've got depth. We've got numbers.
Good question. I imagine the onus will be on security to come up with procedures to allow for those who are carrying.
How do law enforcement individuals traveling on the airlines with their pistol make it through security screening at the airport? Some sort of declaration and proof of I.D. which in our case would be our enhanced CPL.
That's the current law. As a CPL holder, I'm allowed to have a gun, but not attend large events.
The new law is going to solve that problem for me.
Just to expound on what TM said:
Non-enhanced CPL holders are prohibited by statute from carrying concealed in certain locations (see paragraph (1) (a) through (h) at the link).
Enhanced CPL holders will be exempt from those restrictions.
Enhanced license requires an additional 8-hours of training (both classroom and range) conducted by a state certified training agency.
The Michigan Legislature Website is a free service of the Legislative Internet Technology Team in cooperation with the Michigan Legislative Council, the Michigan House of Representatives, and the Michigan Senate.
may god have mercy on our souls
I can see the story now
"Maniac kills 2 - additional 12 dead due to crossfire between wannabe super hero vigilantes"
8 hours of training - and no consideration of necessity or mental stability?
another reason to not move back
Do you know how many CPL holders there are in Michigan now? Do you know where they're currently allowed to carry? I'll pause a moment for you to look that up before I ask you the question, "And yet, why aren't these types of headlines appearing daily now?"
Eight hours of training is required for the non-enhanced CPL. An additional 8 hours of training is required for an enhanced version. Many non-qualifiers for a license, including mental instability, are covered on the application process.
I have a gun for home defense, probably will never need it, but it's there if I do. Don't understand CPL carriers, but support their right just the same. Personally, I'm just not at all frightened enough of the world to feel the need to be armed at all times. The CPL carriers that I know seem to be a little sittish and paranoid. Grew up in some pretty rough areas and just still can't see where a gun would have ever helped me out of a dangerous situation, it would have only made it worse.
As for people carrying firearms at sporting events and concerts? I think it should be the venue owner's right to say if they want guns on their property, but that all of the attendees must be informed either way.
To what degree can private property owners exempt themselves from allowing someone with a CPL permit and a firearm to enter their facility?! Would that apply to a stadium, restaurant, hospital, etc. under the new laws. Just curious....
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." --Gandhi
Privately-owned venues would retain the option of disallowing enhanced CPL holders from entering their facilities.
Not so with city-owned venues due to the state's preemption law.
This post was edited by Murky Waters 16 months ago
As a private location, owners can post signs prohibiting carry. Now the part where you will get different answers goes with the logical follow up "What can the owner do if someone ignores or doesn't see the sign?" Most people agree that if an owner noticed someone carrying a concealed weapon (and it's supposedly "concealed," so this starts to become a silly discussion - but roll with it for now) they can ask the person to leave, and if the person refuses, they can be in trouble.
Like I said - you'll hear differing opinions on that. IMO, that's part of the problem with the current set of laws, is that you have a lot of weird edge cases and a lot of places where there is ambiguity.
Here’s my take in it:
Privately-owned property owners can implement a no guns policy. CPL holders who ignore the policy and are caught carrying will be asked to leave the premises. Failure to do so could result in a criminal trespass charge if the po-po become involved. However, concealed means concealed, so who’s going to find out?
The areas (a) through (h) listed in the present statute I posted are pistol free zones, off limits to CPL holders carrying concealed. If caught, first violation is a civil infraction with a fine and loss of CPL for six months. The penalty increases for subsequent violations.
With an enhanced CPL, one caught carrying in the otherwise pistol free zones that are private property with a no guns policy will no longer be a civil infraction (or harsher depending upon subsequent violations). The whole “asked to leave and if not, trespass” thing applies.
But, again, concealed means concealed, so there's that.
Yes and hopefully I plan to teach the course.
Question authority. Power to the people
i know mrs juventus is giving me one of those tactical training courses for a christmas gift... will that suffice?
Shouldn't the property owner be allowed to shoot the cpl nancy?
Someone ignores posted warnings and trespasses on your property, while armed...
sounds like self defense to me
One thing that should please the WH Hoplophobes about the new bill is that it does away with the present lawfulness of CPL-holders open-carrying in the concealed carry pistol free zones.
Open carry is still lawful almost everywhere else in the state, though, so the chance you of having a panic attack over seeing a holstered gun won't go away entirely.
You would need to prove that you felt as if your life was in imminent danger and that you had no ability to extricate yourself from the situation. If you could manage that, then yes, you might be able to shoot me and take my Skittles.
Well, if you're unarmed, you can't shoot anyone. That's why you need a gun, Bob!
I assume that would be the NRA's Personal Protection Outside the Home. Is that what the state is going to require for enhanced CPL?
Really? Honest question - why?
If someone was threatening my life, or my family's life - I wouldn't even hesitate.
I will. I can't understand why we would be limited to begin with, but that is why I always defer to the wisdom of the government.
Indeed. It was pure politics.
The pistol free zones delineated under current statute were amendments introduced by gun-hating members in the state legislature after the original bill creating the shall issue CPL law had been introduced in 1999 and made its way through the legislative process.
The intent was to load up the bill with these exclusion zones to the point where those who were in favor of the proposed shall issue law and wanted a “clean bill” with no exclusion zones would not vote for it out of fear of them being demagogued by the gun haters – as in “they voted to allow guns in our schools and churches!!” etc.
That strategy didn’t work, of course, and this new bill, introduced by the same guy who introduced the original bill in 1999, will clean up the mess created by the politics inherent in the original bill passage process.
I don't know if that will be it.
I have the same question. What course? If not existing, who develops it? then who trains the instructors to be certified?
I don't know what the "extra training" is.
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