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GM: billions in profits, zero federal income taxes

  • Unbelieveable. I know I shouldn't be shocked, but it's incredible that a corporation that got bailed out by federal taxpayers can rake in billions of dollars in profits and not pay a penny in federal income taxes...no

    GM rakes in big profits, avoids U.S. income tax

    'General Motors Co., which has earned more than $13 billion since 2009, said Thursday its worldwide tax rate will increase to as much as 13 percent.
    But the Detroit automaker, which reported $1 billion in profits for the first three months of the year, has legally avoided paying U.S. federal income taxes since exiting bankruptcy. And GM likely will pay no income taxes for many more years.
    A series of Treasury Department rulings since 2008 let GM use $18 billion in losses — from the "old GM" that was left behind in bankruptcy — to offset any profits.
    GM spokesman Jim Cain said the automaker pays "significant" state income taxes, but because of its prior losses doesn't incur federal tax liability. "We did not pay federal income tax last year," he said.
    GM isn't alone among automakers that have paid little, if any, federal income taxes in recent years.
    Ford Motor Co. has paid relatively low worldwide income taxes in recent years after it lost $30 billion between 2006 and 2008. It, too, has been able to use past losses to offset its profits.
    But some experts have criticized the U.S. Treasury's decision as part of its $49.5 billion bailout of GM to allow the company to retain the losses of its predecessor General Motors Corp.
    Under the 1986 law, a change in control of a company typically limits the use of tax losses by the company. That's to prevent "trafficking in tax losses," where big profitable companies could buy money-losing firms to reduce their tax bills.
    The Treasury has allowed many companies that received big government bailouts to retain tax losses estimated to cost the Treasury more than $100 billion in tax revenue. That includes companies like AIG, Citibank and other banks.
    Since the government owned 61 percent of GM after it exited bankruptcy, the credits should not have transferred, some say.
    "It was basically just ignoring the law," said J. Mark Ramseyer, a Harvard law school professor who wrote a 2011 paper on the Treasury's decision to exempt GM.
    GM kept about $45 billion in tax losses and valued them on its books at $18 billion in 2009.
    "Had the president tried to give GM $18 billion forthrightly, voters might have complained. By hiding the gift in an obscure tax section, he reduced that electoral scrutiny," Ramseyer and Indiana University business professor Eric Rasmusen wrote.'

    http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120504/AUTO0103/205040378/GM-rakes-big-profits-avoids-U-S-income-tax?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

    'Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable' - President John F. Kennedy

    WixomSpartan

  • All I can say is WOW!!

    Carolina Sparty

  • WixomSpartan said...

    Unbelieveable. I know I shouldn't be shocked, but it's incredible that a corporation that got bailed out by federal taxpayers can rake in billions of dollars in profits and not pay a penny in federal income taxes...no

    GM rakes in big profits, avoids U.S. income tax

    'General Motors Co., which has earned more than $13 billion since 2009, said Thursday its worldwide tax rate will increase to as much as 13 percent. But the Detroit automaker, which reported $1 billion in profits for the first three months of the year, has legally avoided paying U.S. federal income taxes since exiting bankruptcy. And GM likely will pay no income taxes for many more years. A series of Treasury Department rulings since 2008 let GM use $18 billion in losses — from the "old GM" that was left behind in bankruptcy — to offset any profits. GM spokesman Jim Cain said the automaker pays "significant" state income taxes, but because of its prior losses doesn't incur federal tax liability. "We did not pay federal income tax last year," he said. GM isn't alone among automakers that have paid little, if any, federal income taxes in recent years. Ford Motor Co. has paid relatively low worldwide income taxes in recent years after it lost $30 billion between 2006 and 2008. It, too, has been able to use past losses to offset its profits. But some experts have criticized the U.S. Treasury's decision as part of its $49.5 billion bailout of GM to allow the company to retain the losses of its predecessor General Motors Corp. Under the 1986 law, a change in control of a company typically limits the use of tax losses by the company. That's to prevent "trafficking in tax losses," where big profitable companies could buy money-losing firms to reduce their tax bills. The Treasury has allowed many companies that received big government bailouts to retain tax losses estimated to cost the Treasury more than $100 billion in tax revenue. That includes companies like AIG, Citibank and other banks. Since the government owned 61 percent of GM after it exited bankruptcy, the credits should not have transferred, some say. "It was basically just ignoring the law," said J. Mark Ramseyer, a Harvard law school professor who wrote a 2011 paper on the Treasury's decision to exempt GM. GM kept about $45 billion in tax losses and valued them on its books at $18 billion in 2009. "Had the president tried to give GM $18 billion forthrightly, voters might have complained. By hiding the gift in an obscure tax section, he reduced that electoral scrutiny," Ramseyer and Indiana University business professor Eric Rasmusen wrote.'

    http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120504/AUTO0103/205040378/GM-rakes-big-profits-avoids-U-S-income-tax?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

    Why is this any more upsetting than what GE or Verizon did?

    Madhatter536

  • Can all companies use their pre-bankruptcy losses to offset post-bankruptcy profits and if so can individuals do the same?

    NYGreenie

  • As if Wixom doesn't have an ax to grind.

    But glad to make myself just as stupid as him, I'll play along.

    I don't give two shits what GM pays in taxes, same for GE, Apple, Exxon, all of them. Only idiots worry about this crap. Now what the workers pay, that's what matters.

    Our tax system is a load of crap. Some idiots "think" levying taxes is a way of retribution. Some idiots want to live off the efforts of others. That this subject "matters" to some fools shows how fucked up our political system is.

    Tree Rat

  • Tree Rat said...

    Some idiots want to live off the efforts of others.

    Agree, that is F'ed up.

    spartanMF

  • 4 more years, 4 more years, 4 more years.....

    Carolina Sparty

  • I have to admit, as much as I am a big fan of a zero corporate income tax rates, I don't like that a federally run for profit organization avoids paying any taxes whatsoever.

    MasonDelhiGuy

  • Nitro Biscuits said...

    But GM and Billions of profits? Fucking awesome for Michigan and proof positive the Auto Bailout was a great call even though it was unpopular at the time.

    There are some people I am sure that think GEs low taxes are awesome.

    spartanMF

  • MasonDelhiGuy said...

    I have to admit, as much as I am a big fan of a zero corporate income tax rates, I don't like that a federally run for profit organization avoids paying any taxes whatsoever.

    So you believe that corporations deserve to benefit from society without having to pay anything for those benefits, but believe that poor people need to cough up more of what they already don't have enough of. You are one sick individual.

    Madhatter536

  • Tree Rat said...

    .
    Some idiots want to live off the efforts of others.

    Yes. They are called corporate CEO's.

    Madhatter536

  • Madhatter536 said...

    Yes. They are called corporate CEO's.

    This of course includes GMs CEO, right? Or you on the ball sucking Obama/GM train that every other wells lib is on?

    spartanMF

  • Nitro Biscuits said...

    But GM and Billions of profits? Fucking awesome for Michigan and proof positive the Auto Bailout was a great call even though it was unpopular at the time.

    I expected someone to make this point, although my money was on GRR. In other words, in the immortal words of Tip O'Neill, all politics is local...

    'Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable' - President John F. Kennedy

    WixomSpartan

  • Tree Rat said...

    As if Wixom doesn't have an ax to grind.

    But glad to make myself just as stupid as him, I'll play along.

    I don't give two shits what GM pays in taxes, same for GE, Apple, Exxon, all of them. Only idiots worry about this crap. Now what the workers pay, that's what matters.

    Our tax system is a load of crap. Some idiots "think" levying taxes is a way of retribution. Some idiots want to live off the efforts of others. That this subject "matters" to some fools shows how fucked up our political system is.

    Not sure what your point is. Are you saying there's no relationship between corporate taxes and individual taxes?

    Also, what axe do I have to grind?

    'Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable' - President John F. Kennedy

    WixomSpartan

  • spartanMF said...

    This of course includes GMs CEO, right? Or you on the ball sucking Obama/GM train that every other wells lib is on?

    It includes all CEO's who make more than 10 times what the average worker of their company earn. No CEO is worth more than that.

    And I for one am glad that GM is alive and bin Laden is dead.

    Madhatter536

  • Where is the liberal outrage?

    Ahhhh yeah, GM is a union company, nothing to see here....

    The_Dude

  • People just want to tax the "job creators". Isn't this the Right's dream? Zero taxes on corporations and the rich?

    Johnny2x2x

  • The_Dude said...

    Where is the liberal outrage?

    Ahhhh yeah, GM is a union company, nothing to see here....

    To be fair, Madhatter is outraged (I think) nerd

    'Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable' - President John F. Kennedy

    WixomSpartan

  • WixomSpartan said...

    To be fair, Madhatter is outraged (I think) nerd

    I think it stinks that any corporation uses shady accounting practices to avoid paying taxes. And that includes GM.

    Madhatter536

  • WixomSpartan said...

    Not sure what your point is. Are you saying there's no relationship between corporate taxes and individual taxes?

    Also, what axe do I have to grind?

    I'm not sure what your point is.

    Look, you get wet grinding on GM. Whatever.

    I don't subscribe to the stupidity and pander that "tax the rich" is.

    The number one thing fucked up in this nation is the tax code. It's effed in how it's collected and it's effed in how it's spent. "Getting" anybody will not fix anything. That notion is for complete idiots (and I must be one by showing up on the board loaded with idiots)

    So what are we going to fix? The collecting or the spending? Or stay the course? No I don't think GM or any other corporation is taxed correctly. IMO, our tax codes have been made non-competitive by the current crop of morons from both parties that are now in Washington. So with that, IMO, corporations should be paying the lowest possible rates. It makes no difference. Individuals should be the primary source of all taxes. You want people to work here, make the nation the most attractive place to be for a corporation.

    BTW, I've seen your name associated with other GM themed threads, yeah, my impression, hey if you you want to walk away from the statement you started this thread with more power to you.

    Tree Rat