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lars said...
Sorry but you libs got it wrong again. The original proposal applied to family farms and parents it wasn't until pressure was placed on the admin that they made the 'exception for parents" and then ultimately abandoning the rule altogether.
"The decision to withdraw this rule — including provisions to define the ‘parental exemption’ — was made in response to thousands of comments expressing concerns about the effect of the proposed rules on small family-owned farms,”
What is really telling. Is that it doesn't bother you in the least that this administration can't keep their hands of other people's lives. Creating problems where problems don't exist. Whether this rule was implemented or not. It should bother you that Obama feels the need to control other people's lives.
This post was edited by doc_spartan on 4/27/2012 at 6:29 PM
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doc_spartan said...
It's as if you believe that President Obama spends all his free time writing regulations specifically designed to hamper the American way of life....and perhaps you do?
Lars I take strong exception to your line "creating problems where problems don't exist": - Agriculture has a death rate of 30 workers per thousand in the US, the highest of all industries - It's ten times more dangerous than working in a manufacturing plant - On average 113 kids under the age of 20 die in a farm accident every year - 40% of those kids are killed operating motor vehicles and machinery - In 2009 3,400 kids were injured (but not killed) in farm related accidents
You know what one of the most striking things you'd notice when you walk into the engineering design centers of a major manufacturer of farm equipment is? The surprising amount of design engineers that only have one arm. They didn't loose that arm working for the company, they didn't loose that arm in a college traffic accident. They lost the arm as a kid working on their parents farm.
In this particular case, the manufactured political outrage that killed this reg will have real consequences down the road for a bunch of kids and their parents who will be living up to the ideals of personal responsibility when some of them die, and some of them are injured for life.
Please help me understand how this is "creating a problem where problems don't exist"
This post was edited by TrapperGus on 4/27/2012 at 5:57 PM
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TrapperGus said...
this is BS...you guys want to fight on both sides of this argument and somehow you expect that others will just read your words attaching the regulators for proposing rules and then attack the regulators for there being no rules and not think you all are insane...grow up already...
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TrapperGus said...
this is BS...you guys want to fight on both sides of this argument and somehow you expect that others will just read your words attaching the regulators for proposing rules and then attack the regulators for there being no rules and not think you all are insane...grow up already...
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fallenangle said...
you guys? Go ahead and try to find a quote from me about this issue. It's frickin hilarious seeing GRR try to defend a worthless law that couldn't even stand the test of 1 full day. GRR isn't as anonymous as you'd think, look up the words partisan hack in the dictionary and you'll find his old mug staring right back at ya
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fallenangle
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GRR Spartan said...
fallenangel gets his ass handed to him almost daily.
What he missed was i said they weren't going to overturn rules about farm owners kids. Therefore if the farmers want to keep putting theirkids at risk its their call. They just can't hire juveniles like the children of farm employees and put them at risk.
But fallenangel is still supporting Zimmerman's right to follow and shoot unarmed teenagers so I am not surprised he can't see the nuances between farm owners kids and other juveniles.
why do you feel compelled to lie about me? Are you that pathetic of an individual that you have to make up sh1t about an anonymous person?
I'm not the only one supporting Zimmerman's right to protect his life, he has raked in over 200K so far from his fellow citizens of the USofA for his defense
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doc_spartan said...
It's as if you believe that President Obama spends all his free time writing regulations specifically designed to hamper the American way of life....and perhaps you do?
Lars I take strong exception to your line "creating problems where problems don't exist": - Agriculture has a death rate of 30 workers per thousand in the US, the highest of all industries - It's ten times more dangerous than working in a manufacturing plant - On average 113 kids under the age of 20 die in a farm accident every year - 40% of those kids are killed operating motor vehicles and machinery - In 2009 3,400 kids were injured (but not killed) in farm related accidents
You know what one of the most striking things you'd notice when you walk into the engineering design centers of a major manufacturer of farm equipment is? The surprising amount of design engineers that only have one arm. They didn't loose that arm working for the company, they didn't loose that arm in a college traffic accident. They lost the arm as a kid working on their parents farm.
In this particular case, the manufactured political outrage that killed this reg will have real consequences down the road for a bunch of kids and their parents who will be living up to the ideals of personal responsibility when some of them die, and some of them are injured for life.
Please help me understand how this is "creating a problem where problems don't exist"
Edit...I found a much more specific source of deaths by occupation, you're about as likely to be killed if you're a farmer as you are to be killed if you work in a foundry. You are 100% more likely to be killed if you are a farmer, than you are to be killed if you are a policeman, or a firefighter.
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fallenangle said...
you guys? Go ahead and try to find a quote from me about this issue. It's frickin hilarious seeing GRR try to defend a worthless law that couldn't even stand the test of 1 full day. GRR isn't as anonymous as you'd think, look up the words partisan hack in the dictionary and you'll find his old mug staring right back at ya
This post was edited by TrapperGus on 4/28/2012 at 8:30 AM
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TrapperGus said...
My comment stands as it stands...the Conservatives on the thread started out complaining about a rule that doesn't exist and then turned around and started complaining that there were no rules...arguing on both sides of the argumet and blaming the liberals of the other side of the argument...
To be clear -
First you argued that the government should not be regulating farmers...
Then you argued that the government should not be leting kids work around hazards on a farm...
And you blamed liberals for both situatuions...
Insanity...
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fallenangle said...
Aside from the fact that the Obama admin capitulated after only 1 day because of the pressure applied by conservative web sites? OK, how about the fact that it wanted to keep 17 year olds from attending livestock auctions...how can that even remotely be considered a safety issue?
This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by doc_spartan on 4/28/2012 at 1:49 PM
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doc_spartan said...
No...the orginal version is here:
http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=WHD-2011-0001-0001It has always contained the farmer's children exception....I'll spare you from having to wade through to these two sections:
"Such youth could only continue to perform work prohibited by the Ag H.O.s if they were employed by a parent on a farm owned or operated by that parent in accordance with the parental exemption, or as a student-learner employed under the provisions of the proposed Sec. 570.98(b)."
"as they are exempt from the Federal Ag H.O.s by virtue of the parental exemption contained in FLSA section 13(c)(2)"
There is currently a requirement that non-children youth employees take 24 hours of training prior to operating certain types of farm equipment, there is an exception to that current rule, FLSA section 13c. The proposed regulation never contained verbage modifying that exception.
This "kids can't work on their own parents farm" meme was cooked up by folks who wanted to submarine the legislation....and you bought it hook line and sinker.
The good news (from the perspective of folks who value economic productivity over the life and health of children employed in one of the most dangerous industries in the US) is that this blatant falsehood was effective enough to submarine the reg.
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lars said...
No more doing chores on a family farm if your under 18. Obama wants to put to an end to the family farm and tradition of teaching your kids how to work your own land.
The Department of Labor is poised to put the finishing touches on a rule that would apply child-labor laws to children working on family farms, prohibiting them from performing a list of jobs on their own families’ land.
Under the rules, children under 18 could no longer work “in the storing, marketing and transporting of farm product raw materials.”
“A proposal from the Obama administration to prevent children from doing farm chores has drawn plenty of criticism from rural-district member of Congress. But now it’s attracting barbs from farm kids themselves … John Weber, 19, understands this. The Minneapolis native grew up in suburbia and learned the livestock business working summers on his relatives’ farm. He’s now a college Agriculture major. ‘I started working on my grandparent’s and uncle’s farms for a couple of weeks in the summer when I was 12,’ Weber told TheDC. ‘I started spending full summers there when I was 13.’ ‘The work ethic is a huge part of it. It gave me a lot of direction and opportunity in my life. If they do this it will prevent a lot of interest in agriculture. It’s harder to get a 16 year-old interested in farming than a 12 year old.’”
Thank goodness the Obama administration is here to rescue all the other John Webers out there who are too blind to know what’s good for them. No word yet on whether Old MacDonald’s family farm is going to have to shut down if the new regulations are enacted — or whether his animals would die a wretched death since his teenage sons may not be allowed to help sustain them.
~We're all armchair coaches & 20 yrs of mediocrity before Dantonio has turned us all into pathetic sociopaths who know no joy or excitement~
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doc_spartan said...
Do you really believe that the regulation out there for comment for only one day? The reg has been out there for comment since Sept 2011.
Have you ever been to a livestock auction my man?....have you ever worked a livestock auction?....It's pretty damn dangerous. http://www.livestocksafety.com/testimonials.html
Do you really believe that the reg would have prevented 17 year olds from even attending a livestock auction? Here's an article from MSU....no where does it say 17 year olds would be prohibited from attending a livestock aution: http://expeng.anr.msu.edu/sites/4h/resources/Proposed_Rule_Changes_to_Federal_Child_Labor_Laws.pdf
Finally, this is a reg that limits employment...if the kid is attending the auction, not employed by the auction, the reg would have no bearing.
So...my question
was "what makes you think the reg is worthless" & your two responses were: - it came down after only one day...which I've demonstrated is false - it prevents 17 year olds from attending livestock auctions....which I've demonstrated is also false
I'll ask again, why do you think the reg is worthless?
This post has been edited 3 times, most recently by fallenangle on 4/28/2012 at 3:40 PM
WHD News Release: US Labor Department proposes updates to child labor regulations [08/31/2011]
http://www.dol.gov/opa/media/press/whd/WHD20111250.htm
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fallenangle said...
You've demonstrated as false? Sorry but I'll go with the wording from the Department of Labor over your MSU link anyday of the week....which says : "Prohibited places of employment would include country grain elevators, grain bins, silos, feed lots, stockyards, livestock exchanges and LIVESTOCK AUCTIONS"
And I'm saying it came down after one day after being brought to the public's attention from the Daily Caller...just makes you wonder how many other bs regulations are out there that haven't been discovered yet
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Obama is going after those evil family farmers