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Support the Student Loan Forgiveness Act (SIAP)

  • Throwback702 said...

    I worked my way through undergrad/post-grad but still had to take out loans. I don't equate this with some of the other ways people are getting over on the government, like the lobsters paid for with the bridge card. Tuition is rising faster than people can keep up with and like others have said, college is essentially a requirement now (as is post-grad work). I support this or any other ways to make getting an education more accessible. Congrats to all of you that either didn't take out loans or did, and paid them off. I'm paying mine off as we speak but I could sure use the money for other shit.

    This bill doesn't make getting an education more accessible. It has nothing to do with that.

    Education is accessible...there are community colleges that are cheap. Also, there are shit schools out there that are cheap, too. Live within your means.

    If you can't afford to go to college, then get a skill or a trade and use that to save up for college.

    Stop blaming others for your problems.

    tVargMan Prime ●

  • Fine, permit student debt to be discharable in bankruptcy, but with severe longer term penalties to it. You need to pay one way or the other.

    Rook ●

  • ~Stils~ said...

    I appreciate the idea and the eloquent way you stated this but financially I don't think it's feasible to get 2 to 3 jobs over the summer as an 18-22 year old that would cover the cost of room, board, and tuition. I may be wrong so someone who did pay their way through school recently may be able to do the math and enlighten me.

    I graduated high school in 2008. When I started college I had roughly $10k saved up from jobs, birthday money, odd jobs, etc. ...

    I graduated from college in May 2011 with roughly $20k in loans. I took between 16 and 18 credits per semester. During the summers, I would take 7 credits a summer and work about 60 hours a week.

    I had a "real job" that started 2 weeks after graduation. Made my last student loan payment last month. Don't think you have to take out a load of debt to graduate college. Work your ass off. Have fun. But make sure every dime you spend tuition wise helps you towards graduation. I graduated with the exact amount of credits needed. It can be done, you just have to work hard and have a plan.

    signature image

    The Doctor is in:

    Dr Lou

  • Join the Army.

    Go find new parents.

    Or just man up.

    Tree Rat

  • PolskaSpartan said...

    This is going to be a busy thread, methinks.

    Yep. There are too many posters that feel that they are entitled to go to an elite school like Michigan State for free or cheap.

    tVargMan Prime ●

  • VargMan said...

    This bill doesn't make getting an education more accessible. It has nothing to do with that.

    Education is accessible...there are community colleges that are cheap. Also, there are shit schools out there that are cheap, too. Live within your means.

    If you can't afford to go to college, then get a skill or a trade and use that to save up for college.

    Stop blaming others for your problems.

    this is an interesting debate.

    is it realisitc to ask someone to spend years, and money, to go to trade school, do that for a while, make some money, save up for tuition, then stop, and scrape by on savings to attend undergrad? One could argue that someone at 30 who has worked some trade would have a better work ethic, would take their schooling more seriously, and would be less likely to waste their time and your money. However, one could also argue that their earning potential is lower long term, and expecting them to drop create a whole other life in order to attend college may seem like too much of a burden. How many bright mines might we lose to a factory or a coal mine (no offense to those professions) because they simply couldnt get enough money to put themselves through school?

    its also tough to say these people are 'blaming others for their problems'. society says that you go to college unless you are a deadbeat. thats the paradigm we live in, for better or worse.

    signature image

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  • If those minds are so bright they will pull a scholly and not need a loan.

    Rook ●

  • Rook said...

    Fine, permit student debt to be discharable in bankruptcy, but with severe longer term penalties to it. You need to pay one way or the other.

    So long as the federal government can, by court order, have the institution remove from the books all of the transcripts of the student and revoke the degree that was issued...

    tVargMan Prime ●

  • Rich Gozinya said...

    Colleges hove done a good job of marketing to you, that's for sure. Tons of jobs now require a bachelors degree just because everyone has one. It doesn't make someone better for that job.

    It doesn't matter, you still have to play the game. You might not like it, but as a twenty year old in today's market, my options are continue working minimum wage or go to college. You just suck it up and pay what they ask you to pay, but it's becoming unreasonable. Thus, the issue at hand.

    ass dan ●

  • I'm handing out up votes in this thread like someone who gives out a lot of something to someone else.

    What others have essentially said is that this approach discourages responsibility, planning, and determination...because you're punishing the people who worked in high school and saved their money, got a job in college and busted their asses to help pay their way, and busted their asses after school to pay their debt off.

    College is not a "right", and that money you knew you were borrowing...it wasn't free. Here's a bit of advice...if you think it's going to be hard to pay back your loans after school, how about forgoing the $2,000 spring break trip each year of school?

    Chitown_Badger

  • Rook said...

    Fine, permit student debt to be discharable in bankruptcy, but with severe longer term penalties to it. You need to pay one way or the other.

    This is really true. The issue is the tuition hike, the student debt is a byproduct of that.

    ass dan ●

  • Will the government give me a house on Pine Lake?

    Do these people know who picks up the tab for their 4 year English Lit degree? it isn't just 1%ers.

    schulermets

  • ass dan said...

    It doesn't matter, you still have to play the game. You might not like it, but as a twenty year old in today's market, my options are continue working minimum wage or go to college. You just suck it up and pay what they ask you to pay, but it's becoming unreasonable. Thus, the issue at hand.

    Just blindly saying you don't have to pay back all the money you borrowed is not the answer. As I said in my last post, all that does is provide a disincentive to saving, working, and planning. The way to address it is by finding a way to reign in the spiraling costs, or just have more people realize that they can't afford to go away to school. The local state college will have to do.

    The other option is to be born an athletic 6'9" black wing with a sweet j.

    This post was edited by Chitown_Badger on 4/20/2012 at 4:56 PM

    Chitown_Badger

  • TeamCaptainJohn said...

    this is an interesting debate.

    is it realisitc to ask someone to spend years, and money, to go to trade school, do that for a while, make some money, save up for tuition, then stop, and scrape by on savings to attend undergrad? One could argue that someone at 30 who has worked some trade would have a better work ethic, would take their schooling more seriously, and would be less likely to waste their time and your money. However, one could also argue that their earning potential is lower long term, and expecting them to drop create a whole other life in order to attend college may seem like too much of a burden. How many bright mines might we lose to a factory or a coal mine (no offense to those professions) because they simply couldnt get enough money to put themselves through school?

    its also tough to say these people are 'blaming others for their problems'. society says that you go to college unless you are a deadbeat. thats the paradigm we live in, for better or worse.

    There's not much to debate...

    The idea that we lose "bright minds" to the factory is a bullshit idea. If these bright minds were indeed bright, they'd find a way to earn their college diploma. Society is not losing out by someone missing college.

    A college degree is not a right...

    The reason why tuition is rising is because there is increased demand on universities by students. The reason why there is increased demand by students is because financing is readily available to anyone that wants a loan. Perhaps the best way to lower college tuition rates is to eliminate the student loan altogether.

    tVargMan Prime ●

  • Nitro Biscuits said...

    A few pointers form someone who went to a small expensive private design school in an area with extremely high costs of living.

    1) Get the basic credits at a community college or other approved budget option and transfer every credit possible. This will save you tens of thousands and buy you a little extra time to get your major right the first time and perhaps for some people give them another year or two to mature and take school seriously if they need it. Get those A's too because it isn't terribly hard at a community college and can get you admission options and scholarship options.

    2) If your degree and program is at all competitive you won't have much time to work beyond a little bit to help with living expenses. Any work level that hurts your studies at all is NOT worth it since your paying out way more than you could bring in.

    3) Don't go to an expensive school for something like art history unless your family is wealthy. It's just madness.

    #3 is another good point. Don't be a fucking idiot when picking your major. It helps to do a little research and consider if you can get a job and actually make money. Yeah, you may love history, but what the hell are you going to do with that?

    Chitown_Badger

  • Chitown_Badger said...

    Just blindly saying you don't have to pay back all the money you borrowed is not the answer. As I said in my last post, all that does is provide a disincentive to saving, working, and planning.

    The other option is to be born an athletic 6'9" black wing with a sweet j.

    You didn't read my post, I said nothing about not paying the debt you owe. It's that tuition is unfair and is causing people to take obscene amounts of money out in loans, which they then can't pay back. See the problem now?

    ass dan ●

  • pulling69 said...

    Fuck that shit, I just made my last student loan payment. They can do the same!

    What am I supposed to do? Go out and get a job? Yeah, right. That will severely cut in to my surfing.

    SoCal Spartan

  • Chitown_Badger said...

    #3 is another good point. Don't be a fucking idiot when picking your major. It helps to do a little research and consider if you can get a job and actually make money. Yeah, you may love history, but what the hell are you going to do with that?

    The only thing that can be done with such a degree is remain in academia, which is actually a pretty legitimate option. Great money and job security teaching at a university

    ass dan ●

  • VargMan said...

    Yep. There are too many posters that feel that they are entitled to go to an elite school like Michigan State for free or cheap.

    Who is saying anyone is entitled? The problem isn't the kids taking out loans; it is the lenders who allow it. If a person applies for a loan, the lender will give them one and MSU (or whomever) would receive it essentially right away, making bank. That creates a black hole and doesn't make the lenders risk the actual defaults. It is quite similar to the bank meltdown, but the difference is that the loan bubble can't pop; it will just continue and increase and hurt more people down the road.

    It's the system that is screwed up. I worked in college, I busted my ass to graduate in four years to avoid more loans when 80 percent of my friends stuck around for five or six years, had a good old time. I never once took out loan money to pay for a Spring Break trip or buy a new pair of jeans. I used my loans strictly for my education, one that I worked hard to achieve.

    Varg, I realize you don't care because you probably paid $10 a credit in the 1960s. And did you ever think that the previous generation helped start the current mess we are in financially?

    This post was edited by Cosmo_Kramer on 4/20/2012 at 5:04 PM

    What is that, a Titleist? A hole in one...

    Cosmo_Kramer ●

  • Chitown_Badger said...

    Just blindly saying you don't have to pay back all the money you borrowed is not the answer. As I said in my last post, all that does is provide a disincentive to saving, working, and planning. The way to address it is by finding a way to reign in the spiraling costs, or just have more people realize that they can't afford to go away to school. The local state college will have to do.

    The other option is to be born an athletic 6'9" black wing with a sweet j.

    The way to reign in costs is to lower demand...or increase supply. Maybe the Federal Government or some venture capitalist can create a new high end upper tier academic conference called Ivy League 2. Maybe the venture capitalists could also create a new high end academic conference in which most public schools in it are considered Public Ivy Schools and where all but 1 school is part of the AAU...and call that conference the Big Ten 2.

    That will be a way to add more supply...or, we can eliminate student loans altogether. Demand will lower because less students can attend schools and tuition will decrease because the amount of money available for education is lowered.

    People need to live within their means...

    tVargMan Prime ●

  • Cosmo_Kramer said...

    Tuition rates are ridiculous and loan debt is increasing gigantic amounts every year, and over $1 trillion is expected in loans in 2012 alone.

    Even at MSU, the rates have hiked dramatically. From when I was a freshman there and my sister (six years younger) was accepted into State just last month, tuition has gone up thousands of dollars. It's to the point that my sister won't be able to attend Michigan State because my parents can't afford it, and having even more loans after I won't have mine paid off for many years doesn't help the cause. And yes, she would be an in-state student.

    Sign the petition, it takes two seconds and is for a good cause. I don't do this often, but it is crazy to think that young people must pay tens of thousands of dollars to become educated in this country while banks can be reimbursed and bailed out. Why not bail out the individuals and their families, especially during a flailing economy?

    So wait. College charge too much, people borrow it, and the government has to eat the cost? I'm out.

    P.S. If you borrowed to go to college and then majored in philosophy, you deserve the crap storm the mountain of debt will rain down on you.

    LoneWolfSparty

  • For those interested.. my estimated cost of attendance this year (2012-2013) is $24,000

    MSUmath2013

  • Cosmo_Kramer said...

    Who is saying anyone is entitled? The problem isn't the kids taking out loans; it is the lenders who allow it. If a person applies for a loan, the lender will give them one and MSU (or whomever) would receive it essentially right away, making bank. That creates a black hole and doesn't make the lenders risk the actual defaults. It is quite similar to the bank meltdown, but the difference is that the loan bubble can't pop; it will just continue and increase and hurt more people down the road.

    It's the system that is screwed up. I worked in college, I busted my ass to graduate in four years to avoid more loans when 80 percent of my friends stuck around for five or six years, had a good old time. I never once took out loan money to pay for a Spring Break trip or buy a new pair of jeans. I used my loans strictly for my education, one that I worked hard to achieve.

    Vic, I realize you don't care because you probably paid $10 a credit in the 1960s. And did you ever think that the previous generation helped start the current mess we are in financially?

    When a loan is issued, how possible is it for a lender to predict whether the student will be able to pay it back without using factors that are considered controversial by politicos?

    tVargMan Prime ●

  • LoneWolfSparty said...

    So wait. College charge too much, people borrow it, and the government has to eat the cost? I'm out.

    P.S. If you borrowed to go to college and then majored in philosophy, you deserve the crap storm the mountain of debt will rain down on you.

    The government ate the cost of the bank bailout !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So what is the difference with loans, besides the fact that there is no "bubble" to be burst?

    What is that, a Titleist? A hole in one...

    Cosmo_Kramer ●

  • VargMan said...

    When a loan is issued, how possible is it for a lender to predict whether the student will be able to pay it back without using factors that are considered controversial by politicos?

    Did you just change your name in his post? lol

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    PolskaSpartan ●

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