Online Now 1856

Wells Hall Off Topic Board

This is your pulpit to preach to the masses about everything from politics to religion

On this Board 97
Record: 3425 (1/27/2013)

Online now 2176
Record: 10351 (3/11/2012)

Boards ▾

MSU Red Cedar Message Board

The largest and most active MSU Spartans board on the web

The Press Box

The place to ask questions to SpartanTailgate's recruiting experts

Duffy Daugherty Forum

"The Duff" is dedicated to Michigan State football recruiting discussion

Jack Breslin Forum

"The Bres" is dedicated to Michigan State basketball recruiting discussion

Wells Hall Off Topic Board

This is your pulpit to preach to the masses about everything from politics to religion

Marketplace & Ticket Exchange

The place to buy, trade or sell Michigan State tickets

Fantasy Sports Forum

For fantasy football and other fantasy sports discussion

Test/Feedback Forum

Reply

Support the Student Loan Forgiveness Act (SIAP)

  • VargMan said...

    When a loan is issued, how possible is it for a lender to predict whether the student will be able to pay it back without using factors that are considered controversial by politicos?

    Isn't for the federal government and the lenders to decide? It is their job... otherwise, it's just going to get really out of control and I wouldn't be surprised to see enrollment decrease at larger universities while more 18-year-olds will just go to a community college for a full eduaction.

    What is that, a Titleist? A hole in one...

    Cosmo_Kramer

  • Cosmo_Kramer said...

    The government ate the cost of the bank bailout !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So what is the difference with loans, besides the fact that there is no "bubble" to be burst?

    I was against that too and wouldn't have signed a petition in support of it. shrug

    LoneWolfSparty

  • SoCal Spartan said...

    What am I supposed to do? Go out and get a job? Yeah, right. That will severely cut in to my surfing.

    Your wife has a well paying job, that is good enough. Plus, I'm sure you get an allowance and earn some cash from the baby sitting.

    35,600 posts and counting since 09-09-2002. tRCMB Dead Pool Commissioner.

    pulling69

  • PolskaSpartan said...

    Did you just change your name in his post? lol

    No, I accidentally put Vic instead of Varg lol...usually Vic is yelling at clouds.

    What is that, a Titleist? A hole in one...

    Cosmo_Kramer

  • Fuck that noise.

    Pay your dues.

    signature image signature image signature image

    SpartanGrad99

  • Nitro Biscuits said...

    be careful of the private loans.

    Not that I really want to get into this shit storm, but it's not that simple. I will not need the student loan forgiveness act if it passes. I will graduate with a 3.1 in a VERY employable major with about 30000 in loan debt. This is because I got a lot of government grants and scholarship to help pay for it. My parents chipped in about $1000 total the past three years of school because it was that or I couldn't make payments. It's not that they can't help, they are rather well off in fact, they just weren't helped for their college so they won't help me with mine. However, I've been fortunate, I've had a full-time job every summer since 10th grade, in addition to the scholarships and grants I got I was able to get by and will graduate next spring. Most kids in college I meet just have their parents fit the bill, others' parents are too poor and they get it basically all paid for by the government. But then there are a lot of middle class kids who get little to no government student loans offered and no grants. This means they are either expect to pay 24k in cash or go the private route. Unfortunately for them, you have to go the private route and end up with 100k in debt upon graduation at a terribly high interest rate. I can't speak personally on the subject of how hard it is to pay off student loans, but I can see a situation where it might be.

    MSUmath2013

  • ass dan said...

    You didn't read my post, I said nothing about not paying the debt you owe. It's that tuition is unfair and is causing people to take obscene amounts of money out in loans, which they then can't pay back. See the problem now?

    An education is like anything else...the value of it is determined by what people are willing to pay for it. So if you think that MSU education is worth $30,000 a year, you take on that debt burden instead of, say, going to Western, or some other school that's local to you. It's not as though you enroll, and then they spring the "Ha! We've got you! It's going to be $30,000 a year!" You know what you're doing going in.

    Yes, college is expensive, and I'm all for finding ways to control costs so that more people have more options of where they go, but there are people making it seem like they have no other choice than to rack up $100,000 over four years, and that's simply not the case.

    Chitown_Badger

  • Cosmo_Kramer said...

    Who is saying anyone is entitled? The problem isn't the kids taking out loans; it is the lenders who allow it. If a person applies for a loan, the lender will give them one and MSU (or whomever) would receive it essentially right away, making bank. That creates a black hole and doesn't make the lenders risk the actual defaults. It is quite similar to the bank meltdown, but the difference is that the loan bubble can't pop; it will just continue and increase and hurt more people down the road.

    It's the system that is screwed up. I worked in college, I busted my ass to graduate in four years to avoid more loans when 80 percent of my friends stuck around for five or six years, had a good old time. I never once took out loan money to pay for a Spring Break trip or buy a new pair of jeans. I used my loans strictly for my education, one that I worked hard to achieve.

    Varg, I realize you don't care because you probably paid $10 a credit in the 1960s. And did you ever think that the previous generation helped start the current mess we are in financially?

    So you take out a loan at an expensive school, you know how much it's for, and what terms it's based on, and agree to pay it back when it comes due...and then when you can't or don't want to pay it back it's the lenders fault for giving it to you?

    That mindset, in a nutshell, is what's wrong with this country. Everyone wants the benefits, but none of the responsibility that comes with it.

    Chitown_Badger

  • Cosmo_Kramer said...

    The government ate the cost of the bank bailout !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So what is the difference with loans, besides the fact that there is no "bubble" to be burst?

    FYI, the government didn't just give money to the banks. They loaned it to them, and the banks paid it back with interest. But calling it a loan, while much more accurate, makes it less easy to rally the masses than a word like "bailout".

    The TARP funds have been repaid, with interest, and the taxpayers actually made money on it. So, as I said above, it was a loan. Or, you're getting bailed out because otherwise you wouldn't be able to go to school.

    This post was edited by Chitown_Badger on 4/20/2012 at 5:36 PM

    With Fifth Third Out, Banks Have Repaid 99% of TARP - WSJ.com

    Six banks repaid nearly half a billion dollars in funds they received from the government bailout of Wall Street, the Treasury Department said, bringing the total bank repayment under the Troubled Asset Relief Program to 99%.

    online.wsj.com

    Chitown_Badger

  • Cosmo_Kramer said...

    I hope MSU and other schools start losing enrollment to be honest. It's all about the money, the professors need the extra 25 Starbuck's Latte's a year. And if I would have known that there would be a fucking recession halfway through college, I probably would have made other decisions in hindsight. And I don't know if any of you have even looked at the tuition spike in the last six years, but it's insane:

    YEAR PER CREDIT AMOUNT
    2011 Fall Semester $406.75
    2011 Summer Semester (Admitted Fall 2005 or after) $380.50
    2011 Summer Semester (Admitted prior to Fall 2005) $353.25
    2010 Fall Semester (Admitted Fall 2005 or after) (A) $371.75
    2010 Fall Semester (Admitted prior to Fall 2005) (A) $345.25
    2010 Summer Semester (Admitted Fall 2005 or after) (1) $347.00
    2010 Summer Semester (Admitted prior to Fall 2005) (1) $321.00
    2010 Spring Semester (Admitted Fall 2005 or after, after offset) (2) $342.00
    2010 Spring Semester (Admitted prior to Fall 2005, after offset) (2) $316.00
    2009 Fall Semester (Admitted Fall 2005 or after) (A) $347.00
    2009 Fall Semester (Admitted prior to Fall 2005) (A) $321.00
    2009 Spring Semester (Admitted Fall 2005 or after, before offset) (3) $314.75
    2009 Spring Semester (Admitted prior to Fall 2005, before offset) (3) $290.25
    2009 Spring Semester (Admitted Fall 2005 or after, after offset) (3) $311.00
    2009 Spring Semester (Admitted prior to Fall 2005, after offset) (3) $286.75
    2008 Fall Semester (Admitted Fall 2005 or after) (A) $311.00
    2008 Fall Semester (Admitted prior to Fall 2005) (A) $286.75
    2008 Spring Semester (Admitted Fall 2005 or after) $277.50
    2008 Spring Semester (Admitted prior to Fall 2005) $254.75
    2007 Fall Semester (Admitted Fall 2005 or after) $280.00
    2007 Fall Semester (Admitted prior to Fall 2005) $257.25
    2006 (Admitted Fall 2005 or after) $255.50
    2006 (Admitted prior to Fall 2005) $234.75
    2005 (Admitted Fall 2005 or after) (4) $233.25
    2005 (Admitted prior to Fall 2005) $223.50
    2004 $206.25
    2004 (Summer) $201.50
    2003 (Fall/Spring) $197.50
    2002 $179.75
    2001 $165.75
    2000 $152.25
    1999 $147.25
    1998 $144.00
    1997 $140.75
    1996 $136.75
    1995 $132.75
    1994 $129.50
    1993 $125.00
    1992 (5) $114.25
    1991 $69.75
    1990 $65.25
    1989 $60.75
    1988 $56.00

    That is insane. (That is at MSU, mind you.) But yeah, working at Pita Pit will cover that plus living expenses, cost for books, bus passes, etc. And I know the petition is bogus, but I just feel bad that my sister can't continue my family's tradition of being Spartans.

    Downvotes hurt, you losers lol

    Is your family poor?
    Do you maintain a GPA Of 3.5 or higher?
    Do your PARENTS hate you?

    Haters gonna hate!

    TempleSpartan ●

  • Its nice to have $0.00 in loans. I feel for all of you.

    signature image

    Spartan8Ball

  • Nitro Biscuits said...

    What about nearly everyone that bought a house between 2006 and 2008? They nearly all got screwed no matter how good their intentions were or how much research they did (and no, normal perfectly rational people did not know there was a giant bubble).

    Sometimes the system is off like in that example and perhaps the education costs scale is as well. It's not a fair world, no, but isn't as black and white as you are saying.

    It's different. A house is something that you're going to possibly sell at a later date, so the value of it over time affects how much money you can regain of what you paid. But an education is not a tangible asset...you never "sell it". So basically you pay the money for school and what you get out of it is up to you, it can't be diminished at a later time.

    Chitown_Badger

  • According to Senator Sanctamonius, only snobs go to college, so why bother?

    ancientspartan ●

  • Nitro Biscuits said...

    That's nice but how many kids know this? Everything in their world is telling them to go to college. For many that means taking out big loans and going before they are ready. And I'm sure many looking bad would do things differently after they were a bit wiser.

    Good God...for the future of our country I would hope that today's high school seniors know there are options for them besides the schools that will cost them $100k over four years. Not all college educations are created equally, and as such, not all college educations cost the same.

    Shit, Bruco is in banking and makes more money than I do by a decent amount, and he graduated from UWGB...and paid less than me in the process.

    This post was edited by Chitown_Badger on 4/20/2012 at 5:51 PM

    Chitown_Badger

  • Chitown_Badger said...

    So you take out a loan at an expensive school, you know how much it's for, and what terms it's based on, and agree to pay it back when it comes due...and then when you can't or don't want to pay it back it's the lenders fault for giving it to you?

    That mindset, in a nutshell, is what's wrong with this country. Everyone wants the benefits, but none of the responsibility that comes with it.

    I don't know if high school kids, 17-18 years old really understand this concept.

    shipmate

  • Nitro Biscuits said...

    What if school costs doubles again in 10 years? What if the expectancy of a 4 year degree from a legit school for a rare job opening continues to get more extreme? Obviously there is a limit to how silly this gets right?

    Do you expect kids not to go for it and know when to aim lower?

    The system can be off and people can be fairly upset by that. This isn't a freeloader going to get your's situation.

    As someone else said, at some point, more and more students will say that the debt burden simply doesn't make sense for them and they'll go elsewhere. It'll have to balance itself out at some point, but I'll say it again, I'm all for finding ways to reign in the rising costs.

    And unless you're talking the top 10-15 schools in the country, where you went to school only gets you so far (not very).

    Chitown_Badger

  • shipmate said...

    I don't know if high school kids, 17-18 years old really understand this concept.

    What concept? Responsibility?

    Chitown_Badger

  • VargMan said...

    There's not much to debate...

    The idea that we lose "bright minds" to the factory is a bullshit idea. If these bright minds were indeed bright, they'd find a way to earn their college diploma. Society is not losing out by someone missing college.

    A college degree is not a right...

    The reason why tuition is rising is because there is increased demand on universities by students. The reason why there is increased demand by students is because financing is readily available to anyone that wants a loan. Perhaps the best way to lower college tuition rates is to eliminate the student loan altogether.

    So your position is this: The reason more people are applying to college is because financing a degree is easier.

    Doesn't that ignore the more logical explanation that more people are attending college because in today's economy, it's a requirement to do anything other than flip burgers? And on the other hand, if a typical college education costs close to 100K nowadays (and i'm just tossing that figure out there), how would an uneducated person manage to find work at a job that would finance that education?

    I get what you're saying but it ignores the practicality of it all and your point of view would seem to offer underpriveleged members of society little/no hope of obtaining an education from anything other than a community college. Is that really how you want things to work?

    Fine either way, I've got my degrees.

    signature image

    Throwback702 ●

  • Chitown_Badger said...

    What concept? Responsibility?

    When you're in school, teachers/counselors tell you it's worth it. This girl I graduated with was essentially going $100,000 into debt each year to attend George Washington.

    It's hard to expect seniors in high school to understand the consequences when those who "look out" for you are telling you to make it by any means necessary.

    shipmate

  • Nitro Biscuits said...

    Again a typical kid isn't a savvy veteran of finance. Their options significantly more complex today with a less than genuine world telling them to go different directions.

    I just don't like this logic that people seem to think kids should know what to do. How would they and why?

    It's the job of their parents and school administrators to educate them and guide them through that process.

    get the new Nike MSU font: http://tinyurl.com/spartansfont

    Nutz Interface

  • The world needs ditch diggers, too.shrug

    Seriously though, there is a lot of truth in such a statement. If society becomes too educated, its forced to re-evaluate what an undergrad degree is really worth.

    MiamiSpartan

  • Nitro Biscuits said...

    And really... in the way things are changing so fast... do they really know?

    uh.. it's their job to know (quite literally in the school administrator sense). That's precisely the kind of stuff that advisors in HS are supposed to know. They should also help the parents. Hopefully a parent who wants to send their kid to school understands that school doesn't cost the same now as it did when they were there 20-30 years ago.

    get the new Nike MSU font: http://tinyurl.com/spartansfont

    Nutz Interface

  • Nitro Biscuits said...

    They don't know the future though. It was the job of many people to know about a housing bubble.

    Is there going to be jobs for these kids in 4-5 years after they have all this debt? Who the fuck knows?

    The job market doesn't really fluctuate quite like real estate does. Who people are hiring in 5 years is not going to change THAT significantly.

    get the new Nike MSU font: http://tinyurl.com/spartansfont

    Nutz Interface

  • Nutz Interface said...

    It's the job of their parents and school administrators to educate them and guide them through that process.

    Should this comment be merged with the thread about parents that "think" their kid is the one whose shit doesn't stink?

    Even worse are the parents that think like the original poster.

    Tree Rat ●

  • Nitro Biscuits said...

    Tell that to kids that graduated in 2008 and 2009

    I graduated in 2009...

    get the new Nike MSU font: http://tinyurl.com/spartansfont

    Nutz Interface

Michigan State
247Sports
Features
Resources
Connect

247Sports In partnership with CBS Sports