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Support the Student Loan Forgiveness Act (SIAP)

  • "go into the military if you want a free education."

    Students attending college in the U.S. - 23,000,000

    U.S. Military (active and reserve) - 2,200,000

    Big Ten Referee ●

  • Kzoo_Spartan said...

    (1) Minimum wage doesn't make you much more than that TODAY. (2) Rent at most places--barring living in a house with 5 other people, which I'm pretty sure most college grads don't/won't do--is at least double that. (3) Utilities run close to double that, Insurance is 50% more if not double, $50 of gas might maybe get you a week...

    Point being...it's 2012. Costs have increased exponentially, not just for college tuition but for living in general, but salaries/wages haven't.

    So the fiscal argument you present for the "stop whining" argument is staggeringly irrelevant, and serves little else other than to paint you as the typical "fuck you, I've got mine" type that some are complaining about.

    12k ( which is what I made in 1987) as today worth about 23k-24k.
    Rent can vary. The place I lived in back then wasn't much. A similar basic apartment will cost you $500 today in most places. I if you want to stay in EL and keeping living college life- you will pay too much. I could have rented a place for $200 per month in Colonial Village but stayed in the student ghetto and paid too much) Utilities including basic cable and basic internet will be about $100 max for an apartment. Car Insurance if you aren't an idiot is still no more than $100 per month. If you have a car payment ( I understand they are hard to avoid) $150 for a decent basic used car. Gas is one thing that is much more expensive lately but as long as you don't have a long commute, you can get by on a 1/2 a tank a week or about $30 on most cars- so $120. Cell phone $50
    If you borrowed 10k per year ( 4 times what I did) @ 2% interest ( 5x less than I paid) pymnt = $370
    So if you make $12 per hr you make $24k per year. Take home about $1700 per month.
    Rent $500 + Utils $100 + Insurance $100 + Car + $150 + Gas $120 + Cell phone $50 loans $370= $1390
    That leaves $310 for everything else. Not much difference percentage wise than I had in 1987. ( use any online inflation calculator)

    I know its tough. You will run across good financial times and tough financial times all through your life. But if you really look at it, you have much more discretion in your spending than you will want to admit to yourself. I have 5 kids age 19- 28 and I seriously understand your problems. And its hard not to pay lots of money on cell phones, cars, computers, clothes, and if you want to do anything its all expensive. But yes- you probably need to share housing expenses, car pool or take a bus, choose the cheapest cable/internet package and the cheapest cell phone. Make your choices. Then work as many jobs and hours necessary to pay the bills. You are young. Hard work wont kill you and in fact may lead to a better job.

    On just a financial basis, I would trade places with anyone that has 40K in Student Loan debt ( as long as I had a degree) and a $12 per hour job to be 24 years old again. But its never been easy. My grandmother used to tell me that when I bitched about making my student loan payment back then. I didn't appreciate it then and I don't expect a good amount of you believe it because Its not what you want to hear.

    This post was edited by Jethro Bodeen on 4/21/2012 at 12:53 PM

    Jethro Bodeen

  • Not that I agree with forgiveness....but saying I payed/worked through college X years ago so you can today too is dumb

    -----------------------

    In 1972, for example, the average annual undergraduate sticker price of tuition, room, and board was $1,579 at public four year universities and $3,163 at private four-year schools, according to the National Center for Education Statistics. In 2007, the sticker price for a year of tuition, room, and board had increased to $14,203 at public four year universities and $38,400 at private four-year schools. And costs at graduate schools are routinely higher.

    In 1972, when Foxx attended college, the federal minimum wage was $1.60 an hour, according to the U.S. Department of Labor. By 2007, 35 years later, the minimum wage had increased to just $5.85 an hour. In constant (1996) dollars, the minimum wage was $6.01 in 1972 but, by 2007, had fallen to only $4.41.
    While the average annual sticker price of college between 1972 and 2007 grew 900 percent for public four-year schools and 1,214 percent for private four-year schools, the actual buying power of the federal minimum wage declined by 32 percent while being outpaced by rising college costs by a factor of roughly three to four.

    Student Loan Delusion: Dem Rep. Calls Out GOP Rep. Over Intolerance Comments | Student Loans Blog

    It seems that a Republican lawmaker thinks it’s still 1972 when it comes to student loans and their relationship to the cost of a U.S. college education. And a Democratic lawmaker has taken her to task for it.

    studentloansblog.nextstudent.com
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    Behold the walls of Sparta: 10000 men and every one a brick.

    CORNER BLITZ

  • While they are at it. I want the Mortgage Forgiveness Act and Credit Card Forgiveness Act signed so that I can live in a free house and max out all my credit cards.

    This country has gone to a big steaming pile of shit.

    When you take out a loan, you are required to pay it back. If you can't, don't take one out. I'm sick of hard working taxpayers having to carry the POS of our country on their backs.

    signature image
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    There's a time and a place for everything and it's called college.

    277Gunson

  • Drugs Delaney said...

    You seem to not understand that you and the rest of your generation paid a fraction of the price for the same diploma.

    The rest of my generation? I'm the same age as you according to your next post, so the cost of education isn't that drastically different now as it was then. Thankfully I grew up with common sense, no silver spoon, and a work ethic that helped alleviate any major college education loan drama that it appears some of my age and younger appear to have no sense of.

    I worked up to 20-30 hours a week while attending college, even while commuting up to 40 minutes at some points. I don't expect a pat on the back or even a kudos for doing this. I simply figured it was common sense.

    Guess I should of just got hammered at my apartment every night, rolled out of bed, attended class, rinse/repeat, and then hope the government would bail my ass out like some others here.

    P.S. I'm not insensitive to what those who are asking for this are going through, but getting bailed out is not an economical or responsible solution to the major problem at hand.

    signature image signature image signature image

    DITKA 21659

  • Cosmo_Kramer said...

    Tuition rates are ridiculous and loan debt is increasing gigantic amounts every year, and over $1 trillion is expected in loans in 2012 alone.

    Even at MSU, the rates have hiked dramatically. From when I was a freshman there and my sister (six years younger) was accepted into State just last month, tuition has gone up thousands of dollars. It's to the point that my sister won't be able to attend Michigan State because my parents can't afford it, and having even more loans after I won't have mine paid off for many years doesn't help the cause. And yes, she would be an in-state student.

    Sign the petition, it takes two seconds and is for a good cause. I don't do this often, but it is crazy to think that young people must pay tens of thousands of dollars to become educated in this country while banks can be reimbursed and bailed out. Why not bail out the individuals and their families, especially during a flailing economy?

    that's what we need.... another bailout! Ok seriously, is it really that hard to look at a school and know what you can afford? Neither I nor my family could afford for me to go to MSU even with some scholarships, so I just couldn't go. Going to a Community College and transferring to a college I can afford after. Really eliminates a lot of future debt.

    MindlessChaos ●

  • Jethro Bodeen said...

    12k ( which is what I made in 1987) as today worth about 23k-24k. Rent can vary. The place I lived in back then wasn't much. A similar basic apartment will cost you $500 today in most places. I if you want to stay in EL and keeping living college life- you will pay too much. I could have rented a place for $200 per month in Colonial Village but stayed in the student ghetto and paid too much) Utilities including basic cable and basic internet will be about $100 max for an apartment. Car Insurance if you aren't an idiot is still no more than $100 per month. If you have a car payment ( I understand they are hard to avoid) $150 for a decent basic used car. Gas is one thing that is much more expensive lately but as long as you don't have a long commute, you can get by on a 1/2 a tank a week or about $30 on most cars- so $120. Cell phone $50 If you borrowed 10k per year ( 4 times what I did) @ 2% interest ( 5x less than I paid) pymnt = $370 So if you make $12 per hr you make $24k per year. Take home about $1700 per month. Rent $500 + Utils $100 + Insurance $100 + Car + $150 + Gas $120 + Cell phone $50 loans $370= $1390 That leaves $310 for everything else. Not much difference percentage wise than I had in 1987. ( use any online inflation calculator)

    I know its tough. You will run across good financial times and tough financial times all through your life. But if you really look at it, you have much more discretion in your spending than you will want to admit to yourself. I have 5 kids age 19- 28 and I seriously understand your problems. And its hard not to pay lots of money on cell phones, cars, computers, clothes, and if you want to do anything its all expensive. But yes- you probably need to share housing expenses, car pool or take a bus, choose the cheapest cable/internet package and the cheapest cell phone. Make your choices. Then work as many jobs and hours necessary to pay the bills. You are young. Hard work wont kill you and in fact may lead to a better job.

    On just a financial basis, I would trade places with anyone that has 40K in Student Loan debt ( as long as I had a degree) and a $12 per hour job to be 24 years old again. But its never been easy. My grandmother used to tell me that when I bitched about making my student loan payment back then. I didn't appreciate it then and I don't expect a good amount of you believe it because Its not what you want to hear.

    Net pay on $24k is about $375 a week assuming no deductions are taken for insurance, 401k, etc.

    Fed loan payment (2% interest doesn't exist) ~ $448 per month.

    You now have $30 per month left over for food, clothing, car repairs, savings, etc.

    If you're going to stand on your soapbox and make an argument, at least use numbers that are realistic.

    Big Ten Referee ●

  • ClankyIronBoots said...

    A college graduate today can get a job that pays $10-12/hour. It probably won't be a glamorous job, but it will pay the bills.

    When people say that they can't get a job out of college, it usually means the $40-50k a year with benefits and weekends off gig they were promised their whole lives if they got a degree.

    No one wants to start at the bottom.

    BINGO!

    There are jobs out there for people, yet they aren't being filled because they are "below" what a college grad thinks they deserve. They want a lot of pay, little work, and plenty of time off. I have no clue how so many of them got this idea in their head that they are worth so damn much.

    Almost all don't want to actually start at the bottom and work their way up. Just give them the world on a silver platter, because they went to college.

    signature image
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    There's a time and a place for everything and it's called college.

    277Gunson

  • MindlessChaos said...

    that's what we need.... another bailout! Ok seriously, is it really that hard to look at a school and know what you can afford? Neither I nor my family could afford for me to go to MSU even with some scholarships, so I just couldn't go. Going to a Community College and transferring to a college I can afford after. Really eliminates a lot of future debt.

    Quit making sense!

    Everyone should be able to go where they want regardless of cost! (heavy sarcasm)

    That being said, I want to drive a Ferrari even though I don't make enough to pay for one.

    signature image
     signature image signature image

    There's a time and a place for everything and it's called college.

    277Gunson

  • DITKA ® said...

    The rest of my generation? I'm the same age as you according to your next post, so the cost of education isn't that drastically different now as it was then. Thankfully I grew up with common sense, no silver spoon, and a work ethic that helped alleviate any major college education loan drama that it appears some of my age and younger appear to have no sense of.

    I worked up to 20-30 hours a week while attending college, even while commuting up to 40 minutes at some points. I don't expect a pat on the back or even a kudos for doing this. I simply figured it was common sense.

    Guess I should of just got hammered at my apartment every night, rolled out of bed, attended class, rinse/repeat, and then hope the government would bail my ass out like some others here.

    P.S. I'm not insensitive to what those who are asking for this are going through, but getting bailed out is not an economical or responsible solution to the major problem at hand.

    Was gas $4 a gallon for that 40 minute commute?

    Larry Kazamias

  • MindlessChaos said...

    that's what we need.... another bailout! Ok seriously, is it really that hard to look at a school and know what you can afford? Neither I nor my family could afford for me to go to MSU even with some scholarships, so I just couldn't go. Going to a Community College and transferring to a college I can afford after. Really eliminates a lot of future debt.

    Well, that's fine for you, but some people shouldn't have to settle just because they don't have the money.

    Only the best today and paying it is for tomorrow. If you wait long enough, some slick politician selling votes with other people's money will come along and bail out you. It's the new American way. Don't punish others because you're living in the past.

    dagomike ●

  • CA Sparty said...

    The problem with this argument lies in the simple fact that no one has asked these kids to take out any loans at all - they decided to do so on their own. Now they've decided that this was a bad idea and want a mulligan, and someone else to pay for it. So congratulations on making some stupid decisions and then being surprised when no one feels sorry for you.

    Just as I decided to borrow money to go to school, I made the decision to borrow a lot less than I could have. I could have easily borrowed $100K not worked, gone to a much more expesive grad school, lived in a much nicer place, had a car, gone backpacking through Europe during the summer instead of working. But I didn't, I chose to be conservative and make some tough choices. And then I paid back my loans.

    Could I have paid back the $100K had I borrowed it? Sure. It would have sucked and would have taken a lot longer to do pay back but, I could have done it. Everyone makes financial decisions, I just don't think you should reward the people who make bad decisions by shifting their debt load onto everyone else.

    Goddamn thats a strong post. Well said.

    Chitown_Badger ●

  • Big Ten Referee said...

    Net pay on $24k is about $375 a week assuming no deductions are taken for insurance, 401k, etc.

    Fed loan payment (2% interest doesn't exist) ~ $448 per month.

    You now have $30 per month left over for food, clothing, car repairs, savings, etc.

    If you're going to stand on your soapbox and make an argument, at least use numbers that are realistic.

    Yeah, my grandmother, when I bitched about anything used to say "its better than a sharp stick in the eye".

    Thanks for that. There's no bounds for how useful that advice was.

    Larry Kazamias

  • Exactly why is it that so many have trouble avoiding the ridiculous strawman on backpacking through Europe, Spring Break, not working in the summer, etc?

    Larry Kazamias

  • Nitro Biscuits said...

    Sure, "work hard, take it seriously, be smart" but some acknowledgement that it is, in fact, a more difficult situation than us older people faced and it really shouldn't be that way. They are asked to pay way more money for a degree that has less power to get a desirable job (or sometimes any job). They don't have the same situation we had only 10 years ago.

    of course it is. It's way harder. Not even comparable. Completely agree.

    Royal ●

  • I knew this was going to end up happening. Someday I will be paying for all the idiots who went to a 4 year school right away, paying $20,000 a year. It's pretty simple decision to make, if you are middle class, go to a community college for 2 years and save yourself $30,000. While your there you can work 1-2 jobs and save up enough to pay for at least 1 yr of your tuition at the four yr university you transfer to.

    It pisses the shit out of me when I see kids taking out loans and they all have the latest iphone, newer cars, buying smoothies everyday in between class, and going to Mexico for spring break. These idiots have no clue how to budget their money, and then they complain when they run out. wahhhhhhh, shut the fuck up!

    If anyone had a brain, they would realize that they need to take the cheapest option for college. I work multiple jobs, go to a cc, and still live at home. I am going to come out debt free, and have enough to go to grad school if I want, which is actually "the" college degree to get today. Everyone has a bachelors now, so its not as valuable as it was in the past. The masters is the new bachelors.

    torq214

  • torq214 said...

    I knew this was going to end up happening. Someday I will be paying for all the idiots who went to a 4 year school right away, paying $20,000 a year. It's pretty simple decision to make, if you are middle class, go to a community college for 2 years and save yourself $30,000. While your there you can work 1-2 jobs and save up enough to pay for at least 1 yr of your tuition at the four yr university you transfer to.

    It pisses the shit out of me when I see kids taking out loans and they all have the latest iphone, newer cars, buying smoothies everyday in between class, and going to Mexico for spring break. These idiots have no clue how to budget their money, and then they complain when they run out. wahhhhhhh, shut the fuck up!

    If anyone had a brain, they would realize that they need to take the cheapest option for college. I work multiple jobs, go to a cc, and still live at home. I am going to come out debt free, and have enough to go to grad school if I want, which is actually "the" college degree to get today. Everyone has a bachelors now, so its not as valuable as it was in the past. The masters is the new bachelors.

    Good call. But you may want to take an anti diarrheal.

    Chitown_Badger ●

  • all post-high school education should be free. it's the only chance the country has to prosper in the coming century. i would rather put the money to education instead of defense. i don't need a multi-billion dollar bomber or fighter jet. i'm tired of being the plutocracy's hammer around the world.

    Turf

  • There is a lot that's wrong with our current system and it starts in K-12. Why are public school not better preparing students to transition into a career after high school? Instead of teaching kids about Pocahontas and John Smith, teach them some fucking career skills. Let them know what career options are post high school; which careers require degrees and which they can do with a High School diploma. When I was 18, I didn't have a fucking clue what was available to me after high school. How can you loan somebody money when they have no fucking clue what they're doing with it other than "going to college". My senior year of High School, the options were:

    1. Work fast food.
    2. Work retail.
    3. Work temp at the local factory and try to get "hired in".
    4. Go to Community College.
    5. Go to a 4 year College.

    I wasted about 4 years in #4 trying to figure out what the fuck I was doing. Thankfully, I worked a decent job and paid my tuition out of pocket. Years 5 and 6, I took out a loan and went to a University AFTER I had figured out what the hell to do with my education.

    Big Ten Referee ●

  • torq214 said...

    I knew this was going to end up happening. Someday I will be paying for all the idiots who went to a 4 year school right away, paying $20,000 a year. It's pretty simple decision to make, if you are middle class, go to a community college for 2 years and save yourself $30,000. While your there you can work 1-2 jobs and save up enough to pay for at least 1 yr of your tuition at the four yr university you transfer to.

    It pisses the shit out of me when I see kids taking out loans and they all have the latest iphone, newer cars, buying smoothies everyday in between class, and going to Mexico for spring break. These idiots have no clue how to budget their money, and then they complain when they run out. wahhhhhhh, shut the fuck up!

    If anyone had a brain, they would realize that they need to take the cheapest option for college. I work multiple jobs, go to a cc, and still live at home. I am going to come out debt free, and have enough to go to grad school if I want, which is actually "the" college degree to get today. Everyone has a bachelors now, so its not as valuable as it was in the past. The masters is the new bachelors.

    I agree completely. As I posted in the education bubble thread, I'm a high school senior and I WAS planning on going straight to MSU next year. I then got my head out of my ass and realized how expensive it was going to be. I have almost a full ride at UM-Dearborn that I'm taking full advantage of for next year. I will also be working part time while going to school. After two years I'll hopefully be transferring to either MSU or UM. I will graduate without any debt at all.

    Meanwhile, my dumbshit friends from high school who have enough money for a $2500 spring break in Mexico and Punta Cana will be taking out loans to go to Central to party for the next four years at a cost of over $80,000. They will then tell me how "lucky" I am to not have any debt.

    Here's how a typical conversation about college goes at my school:
    Dumbshit kid: So where are you going next year?

    Me: UM-Dearborn

    Dumbshit: Damn that fucking sucks. I can't wait to party at Western. I thought you got into State, why aren't you going there?

    Me: It's too expensive.

    Dumbshit: Well they have loans and stuff that you can take out you know. It's like free money.

    Me: no

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    n106644

  • ἢ τὰν ἢ ἐπὶ τᾶς said...

    hopefully be transferring to either MSU or UM.

    You better not go to u of m.

    Duke Silver ●

  • Duke Silver said...

    You better not go to u of m.

    Haha I'm just trying to keep my options open.

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    "Victory or Death : Either With Your Shield or On It"

    n106644

  • ἢ τὰν ἢ ἐπὶ τᾶς said...

    Dumbshit: Well they have loans and stuff that you can take out you know. It's like free money.

    Me: no

    This story is much funnier because you are getting actual free money (scholarship)

    get the new Nike MSU font: http://tinyurl.com/spartansfont

    Nutz Interface

  • Nutz Interface said...

    This story is much funnier because you are getting actual free money (scholarship)

    if this bill passes it wouldn't be like free money it would be free money.

    Duke Silver ●

  • The U.S. should be doing everything it can to make it easier for kids to get quality college educations. College is getting pricier and pricier all the time. It's always been out of reach for a large segment of the population but now many in the middle class are finding it tough to afford even if that means going into massive debt.

    Meanwhile China and India, among others, are pushing out engineers, doctors and scientists by the buttload. Sure, many of them come here to work, but that won't last forever.

    We gave up our manufacturing advantage to shift to a service economy, but if we make service economy jobs too expensive to achieve, another country will find a way...

    I must be crazy to be in a loony bin like this.

    RP McMurphy

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